So this is what I have....
Top to bottom: Kel Tec SU (Sport Utility) 16, Saiga Sporter, Ruger Mini 30, M1 Carbine
The SU16 is my latest addition to the group and it quickly becoming my favorite. It is light weight 4.5lbs unloaded (just over 5 with the scope), 223/556 caliber, and takes AR mags. It is also the most accurate of the 4 rifles shown. It folds in half and holds 2 10 round which came with it or one 30 round mag in the stock. The forearm also folds out into a bipod which is cool but about worthless and It has a piston gas system. They make them in 4 versions with different length barrels, different stocks etc. Mine is the B model which has a light 16" barrel.
The Saiga Sporter in 7.62x39 is a Russian built AK. When they first came out they weren't very popular (thus cheap) since they were awkward, heavy, clumsy. Kind of a bastardized AK with a long extended mushy trigger and conventional plastic sporter stock. I cut holes in the forearm for ventilation. I bought the X39, one in 308 and a Saiga 12. I converted the 308 and 12 to pistol grip versions but kept the x39 as a sporter. It came with a couple 10 round mags which are easily converted to 15 rounders by cutting the follower legs off by an inch. It it also fairly easy to convert to take AK mags by installing a feed ramp/bullet guide. This one is the most accurate of my AKs though the trigger is horrible and the sights suck. It is also fairly heavy at 6.8 lbs unloaded. It does have a scope rail on the side but you need a mount to go with it. I have several mounts but I've not found one that I liked that sits low enough. It has a 16" bbl but the OAL is longer than the rest because the receiver is so long. I do have a trigger kit for it in case I ever want to convert it but I have no intention to at this point. It is really just a fun blaster and is worth a helluva lot more now than what I paid for it.
I have the Mini 30 because I took a police tactical course in the early 1980s with an issued Mini 14. I liked the Mini a lot but had no real use for one though they were fairly inexpensive and quite popular back in the day. When the Mini 30 "Ranch Rifle" came out I bought one to use as a brush gun for hunting. This was a long time before hi-cap mags for 30s became available. I killed three deer with it over the years and my son killed one with it but was never impressed with the 7.62x39 on deer. Despite what people say It is nowhere near as good as the 30-30 so I retired it from hunting. It was never my primary hunting rifle anyway so no big loss. It is however a handy carbine. Mine has a 20" bbl and has a Tech Sight rear sight I put on it after taking off the scope I used for hunting. The Tech Sight really changes it into a viable service type rifle. It shoots 4 moa which is service rifle accurate. The negative with the 30 is that hi-cap mags weren't available for a long time and they are quite expensive. I do have a couple after market hi-cap mags that work sometimes but they are finicky. The positive is that I have a lot of x39 ammo stashed away and mine will shoot steel case and brass case ammo just fine and it's always been reliable. It is the heaviest of the 4 at 7.1 lbs unloaded with the sling. I don't really use it for anything these days. I take it out and shoot it to confirm it's zero once year. My old eyes have trouble seeing the sights these days so I will probably put a scope back on it for next year. It uses proprietary rings but I bought a set when I bought the rifle.
The M1 Carbine is an historic and iconic rifle. Mine is a Winchester made in October of 1944. Not sure if it ever saw combat. The guy I bought it from about 20 years ago had it in a Choate folder. I'm not sure he knew what he had and I got it at a pretty good price. It has all matching and correct numbers/codes which means it was arsenal rebuilt after the war. It came with an original sling, oiler, two original magazines and a stock mag pouch dated 1943 but he didn't have or keep the original stock. I replaced the folder with a surplus stock. I've since added 5 or 6 Korean 15 round mags. I confess that I just shot it for the first time recently. I've been hesitant to shoot it.
This carbine weighs 6lbs unloaded w/sling and has a 20" bbl. There are better rifles and cartridges available to use for self defense but it would do in a pinch. I do have some soft point ammo for it. I could always put it back in the Choate folder if needed. I keep it because the value will just keep going up.
Shooting them...
The SU16 has mild recoil but no flash hider. It does have a cross bolt safety located behind the trigger. It is easy to manipulate and if you've ever shot a pump action shotgun or a 22 rifle you have used this safety before. Not much of a learning process. Yeah, it ain't an AR but so what? The mag release is pretty much AR however. I've been playing with a red dot and a 3-9x scope for longer ranges. Recently shot it at 150 out to 200 yards using 62 gr Wolf steel case ammo. Shooting prone w/o a sling using my elbows as a rest I was able to put 6 rounds on a steel silhouette at 200 yards. I did just order a sling from Kel tec the only kit available for it.
6 out of 10 hits on this target isn't outstanding but considering how I was shooting it's ok. I was getting tired, the sun was in my eyes, I'm old, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda.
The Saiga is heavy and awkward, but man can it shoot. Very little recoil but big muzzle flash out of 16" bbl. The sporter didn't come with a flash hider/compensator. The sights are typical AK, i.e. rudimentary and my old eyes can't see the front sight very well anymore but it shoots pretty well. It's also fun to shoot. I would have no problem defending myself with it. Going to start looking for a scope mount for it to really wring it out.
Off a table with my elbows as a rest...
Off hand @ 25 yards. Yeah, it shoots to the left. I forgot to bring my AK sight pusher.
I had forgotten how much fun the MIni 30 is to shoot. Again, very mild recoil due to the weight and gas system. I was shooting steel cased Wolf ammo. I have 2 aftermarket 30 round mags, a 15 rounders and three factory 5 rounders. All worked fine. Shooting off a table using my elbows as a rest it give suitable accuracy through I was vertically stringing my shots due to breathing. Going to put the scope back on it. Again, I would have no issue defending myself with it.
What can you say about the 30 Carbine? I confess I had been hesitant in shooting mine because I was afraid it wouldn't work and I'd be disappointed. My fears were allayed when I ran mag after mag through it using both original GI mags and Korean ones. Very little recoil and a fun little gun to shoot. It was quite accurate off the table using my elbows.
Off the bench
Off hand
So what are they good for?
Well all four have appreciated in value over what I paid for them, in some cases 2-4X more so there's that. I don't think any of them is a good as an AR for self defense but all could serve that function well. Considering how unlikely one is going to use a pistol, let alone a rifle for self defense it is kind of a moot point. If I lived in a state where the AR/AK are banned (I don't) any of these would be a good choice.
The Mini 30 was my favorite until I got the SU16 but only because the SU takes AR mags. The SU16 at between $400-500 retail (if you can find one) is the most economical choice and uses AR mags.
You can't buy a Saiga Sporter anymore and even if you find one (most have been converted to AK mode) they command huge prices. The Mini 14/30 is readily available for around $700+. I have a friend (former Marine recon) who has about 10 Mini 14s, most of them with folding stocks set up as survival rifles. I may have to try and talk him out of one. Like I need another rifle...
There are some commercial (Plainfield & Auto Ordinance come to mind) M1 Carbines available but they are quite expensive as are surplus ones. You might be able to find an old commercial M1 carbine (Universal, Iver Johnson among others made them) but finding one that works is the challenge.
BTW, the white tags on the guns is how I keep track of them. I put the make, model, serial #, when it was made and/or aquired on one side. The last time I sighted it in on the other.
