Survival and Emergency Preparedness

I'm going to do some out loud thinking, anyone/everyone feel free to jump in with your thoughts...

The Glock 23, when it comes out in Gen 5 will be a bit heavier and thicker than previous gens. This would put the w/unloaded magazine weight at approx. 26.6 ounces (a 3 ounce increase over previous gens). Add in another 7.5 ounces of weight when the mag is loaded for 34.1 total ounces (weight of mag loaded with 13 rounds per Glock's website). My HK USPc 40 is 30.6 ounces w/unloaded magazine, 38.1 ounces total when loaded (actually a bit less I'm assuming because the HK mag will hold one less round than the Glock). So there is only a 4 ounce difference between the Glock and the HK (and probably just a pinch less). Although at the moment I'm hot for a Gen 5 G23 when they come out, I'm starting to question whether 4 ounces difference (or a touch less) is enough of a difference? If the slide, as has been discussed in the Gen 5 threads is 2mm thicker that would only put it 1mm shy of the thickness of the USPc (34mm vs. 35mm). The G23 would have one more round of capacity. So the weight, thickness and capacity are in favor of the Glock but by a pretty razor thin margin overall.

I already have the USPc40. All I'd need, as discussed above would be night sights for the 40 slide and very possibly a 357sig barrel as suggested by Drew and others. So between the price of a 357sig barrel and night sights I'm looking at a ball park of $300 into the platform I already have which would give me a 3-n-1 pistol. And a pistol that was specifically designed for 40 S&W. And one that I've shot and I know I'm pretty much balls-on accurate with, specifically using the 40 slide. I may be talking myself out of a G23 which even a blue label prices (assuming Gen 5 is the same as right now) with night sights would be in the area of $500 give-or-take. That isn't counting a 357sig drop in barrel and 9mm conversion barrel which probably another $300+.

I'm going to have to put some thought into this...

Adding into the mix, I have a P2000 in 40 S&W. I also have a 357sig barrel for it. It has night sights (they are fairly bright but I do not know how old they are). I'd have to see if I could get a 9mm conversion barrel for it. Same thickness as the USPc with a wieight w/loaded magazine of 32.46 ounces. That's 5.64 ounces less than the USPc and actually 1.64 ounces less than a Gen 5 Glock 23.

I've not fired it with the 357sig barrel but I do have a range review in another thread with the 40 S&W barrel and it was simply fantastic! It's a V2 DAO trigger which was very smooth. So if I went with the P2000 I would only need the 9mm conversion barrel for the complete 3-n-1 pistol platform I've been looking for with a weight savings over the other two options.

Some research will have to be put into this angle.

Edited to add: For the P2000 I would only need a regular HK P2000 9mm barrel and not a specific conversion barrel.

Stop acting like you won't end up with both.

Ronin.45 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:20 pm Stop acting like you won't end up with both.

Nah, this time I'm trying to be pragmatic about it. Using the thread as a sounding board. While a G23.5 would be 'neat' and I've always liked the G23 I really talking myself out of it in favor of a 9mm barrel for the P2000. I could even get a 357sig barrel and night sights for the USPc and thus making both the P2000 and the USPc 3-n-1 guns and save $ over just doing the same with a single G23.

I guess the question really comes down to "how many 3 in 1 guns do you need"?
Are you shooting the 357 enough to justify having another? It's kind of a boutique round so I doubt you'll stockpile much or scrounge much in an emergency. Having a single gun capable of shooting it is probably plenty.

I'm putting a 3-n-1 pistol about halfway on the 'want' vs. 'need' meter. Maybe a touch towards the 'want'. True, I can't see shooting a lot of 357sig. Having said that, I have seen a few good deals on ammo (recent events notwithstanding). I could see picking up the odd box here and there 'just because'. Occasionally you'll see a guy on AL that got out of 357sig and just wants to trade his ammo for whatever he got into. Since it's not a primary caliber for me I can have fun looking around for the deal without any pressure.

So from a practical 'prep' perspective a 2-n-1 (9mm/40) pistol makes a lot of sense. So my thinking is running towards picking up a 9mm barrel for the P2000 (since I already have a 357sig barrel that came with the deal). The 9mm barrel doesn't need to be a conversion barrel, I found out a regular HK 9mm barrel is all that is needed to change from 40 to 9. Can even use 40 mags if I wanted to from reading up on it. Which is a nice bonus. Then down the road if I hit a deal on night sights and a 357sig barrel for the USPc then I'll complete that one as a 3-n-1. And it will still be MUCH cheaper than going the Glock route to have just one 3-n-1 platform.

Neither 'has' to be done right away. So it's just a fun project to look at completing.

I made the decision to complete the USPc as a 3-in-1 pistol. Rim Country was recommended on GT as a good source for an HK-style .357sig barrel. Seeing as how they are discontinued and sold out on the HK parts website it looked like a viable option. I ordered a 357sig barrel and it arrived this afternoon. I'll need to take it to the range and see how it does before I give it the thumbs up/down. But looking forward to trying it out.

The Rim Country 357sig barrel arrived as I noted above and I've taken it to the range. It did outstanding and I'd recommend RC to anyone. Looks and shoots like a high quality barrel. So this completes the HK USPc as a 3-in-1 pistol. For now I'll leave the HK P2000 as a 2-in-1 pistol. I have several other 9mm pistols so it's not like I'm lacking in that area. And this now gives me to go-to pistols capable of shooting 357sig so I have the '2 is 1 and 1 is none' covered. As a side note, the 9mm barrel does operate in the 40 slide on the USPc however accuracy, as I suspected, was wanting. I'd have several shots that were fairly tight and then a flyer, rinse and repeat. So it would be more of an 'in an emergency with no other options' sort of option. Fortunately, the complete 9mm slide is easy enough to put on and take off should I want to convert it back. For now I've got the 40 upper with the 40 barrel as the primary way I will carry this pistol.

As expected, the USPc was very soft shooting with either the 40 S&W or 357sig barrels. And exceptionally accurate. I had to tweaked the front sight a hair for the second range trip and now feel very good about it.

In regards to my thoughts on getting a Glock 23.5 and making it a 3-in-1 pistol, I had liked the Glock 23 since it came out. However, I just never got around to getting one till 20 years later. A Gen 3 that I liked, however, I just don't care for finger grooves on a Glock compact. So I had hoped they'd eventually come out with a Gen 5. When it came to light that there were in fact going to be coming out with Gen 5's I thought 'great'! I'll turn that into a 3-in-1 pistol. But along the way I picked up that HK USPc. After that the desire for a G23.5 started to fade. One concern is the long term durability of the 2-pin design. I know that Glock beefed up the slide and the G22.5 in Brazil supposedly passed a 10K torture test. And I have no reason to doubt that. But I also know that a local PD had Glock 22's and 23's as their duty issue for many years but they also had issues with breakage. I don't know if they still have them or not but it was something that was talked about amongst the local firearm instructors. Don't know round count or recall what was specifically breaking but they were either Gen 3 or Gen 4 three-pin models. They just weren't getting the hundreds of thousands of rounds we have on our Glock 21's. So is a 'beefed up' two-pin Gen 5 going to have issues down the line? We don't know yet but we do know that the round beats up the pistol more than the 9mm or 45acp pistols. And as noted, most of these 40 pistols are simply redesigned 9mm's. So for folks reading this, your Glocks in 9mm and 45acp are very likely, with at least a modicum of care, to got into the hundreds of thousands of rounds. In other words, it's very, very likely you'll never shoot out the gun or break it. A Glock that shoots a steady diet of 40 S&W or 357sig I wouldn't be too sure about.

Enter the HK USP and USPc that is designed specifically for the 40 (and thus it would be just as capable with the 357sig). So the more I invested in my USPc turning it into a 3-in-1 pistol the more I figured I just didn't need a G23. IMO, the USPC has better ergonomics, no finger grooves, built like a tank, wonderfully manageable recoil and is hammer-fired which I prefer with a smooth DA/SA trigger. I also like the safety/de-cocker. So it's just a big win for me all the way around.

Does this totally take the G23.5 off the table? For the time being, yes. They are suppose to be coming out in a few months give-or-take. If/when that happens I'll see how they fare. I normally don't buy a pistol for at least a year after it's been introduced. So maybe I'll see how they're doing in say a year and a half. I do like that they won't have finger grooves and they will be FS models (from what I understand). But I'm no longer in any hurry. The HK is simply a better pistol all the way around in several key areas imo.

Dave, seriously, stop mentioning Glock in threads with HK's. I'm going to report you, and then they will take away your HKs and you will have two use a Glock. No one wants that.

On a .357 Sig note: Yeah - too rare, too expensive, and just not Uber-effective enough compared to .40, .45 whatever, to justify on any practical level. Just for shooting fun and personal interest? Yeah. You need one, though, not three.