Your choice(s) for SHTF weapons

[David]

Glock only needs to make 1 gun - Glock 26 - You can add a longer barrel or extended mag.

I'd like to add to this; from a prepping 'SHTF' perspective, and using my Glock 22 as a comparison, the Glock 27 or 33 would even be better. They have the ability to be three different calibers with only a barrel change being necessary. You could add mags to the list but 40S&W and 357sig will use the same mags regardless of which marking they have. And I've shot 9mm out of a G23 magazine so I'm fairly confident that push come to shove you can fire 9mm out of a G27/33 mag. If it were necessary and the appropriate 9mm mag wasn't available.

This is why I'm really liking my G22 even more than before. At one time I was like 'meh' when it came to the G22. But after sitting down and thinking about it in this thread and the rifle go-bag thread I've really come to appreciate what level of versatility it can achieve. Glock may not be 'Perfection' but from a prep perspective I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better pistol overall than the Glock 22 (my example) or tweaking it just a hair in Aerynsun's G26 example to make it a G27/33.

[aerynsun]

Glock only needs to make 1 gun - Glock 26 - You can add a longer barrel or extended mag.

I'd like to add to this; from a prepping 'SHTF' perspective, and using my Glock 22 as a comparison, the Glock 27 or 33 would even be better. They have the ability to be three different calibers with only a barrel change being necessary. You could add mags to the list but 40S&W and 357sig will use the same mags regardless of which marking they have. And I've shot 9mm out of a G23 magazine so I'm fairly confident that push come to shove you can fire 9mm out of a G27/33 mag. If it were necessary and the appropriate 9mm mag wasn't available.

This is why I'm really liking my G22 even more than before. At one time I was like 'meh' when it came to the G22. But after sitting down and thinking about it in this thread and the rifle go-bag thread I've really come to appreciate what level of versatility it can achieve. Glock may not be 'Perfection' but from a prep perspective I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better pistol overall than the Glock 22 (my example) or tweaking it just a hair in Aerynsun's G26 example to make it a G27/33.

I agree, I'd add the G23 for your consideration. A lot of people, myself included, can shoot the 26 better then the 19 or 17.

[David]

I agree, I'd add the G23 for your consideration.

I think that Glock 23 is an exceptional pistol. I carried one for a while, actually a few years off duty. Gen 3 model. Another pistol I should have hung on to but traded away. I think overall that the HK USPc40 is a better pistol all the way around because it was designed specifically for the 40S&W round BUT the G23 has to get the nod from a prep perspective for the same reasons I mentioned above on the G22. Simply more Glock platforms out in the wild and therefore more resources to draw upon. And the mags are about half the price of the HK. Those are some serious considerations.

It will be interesting to see how the Gen 5 G23's hold up since they've gone back to the two-pin design. Probably just fine I would think.

[bdcochran]

I went back to David's original posting about choice for SHTF weapons:

I am going to add my experience going to exotic places where I did not speak the local language, didn't have a cell phone, and never knew exactly where I would be the next night.

1. keep it simple.
you will be tired, hungry, have illnesses with which to deal, other people to consider if your survival is with a circle of friends with varying skill levels.
it is great to have "platforms"/flexibility/special applications. However, you may not be using the tool. Some other person may have to use your tool.
a national firearms instructor, published author and a friend got rid of his handguns except two Glock 23s and shooting only white box, aluminum cased ammo. He explained that he wanted ammo to go bang every time, didn't want a reloading mess and bulk. He knew the Glock 23 and never wanted to be confused about switching parts. He had spare parts to run his two guns forever.
2. I know the mantra about not taking a knife to a gun fight. It is as old as two shots to the torso and one to the head (try that in the dark or bad light when you are dealing with people falling and sprawling and not standing like a paper target). If you truly believe that you will hand a Glock and a lot of ammunition to everyone in your circle and that they have your shooting skills, you need to rethink things.
I have a long Sears tool chest. In that chest are many Moras with modified sheaths or similar Scandinavian knives. For the price of one Glock 23 plus tax, I have purchased and modified at least 20 Moras. Forget about the cost of ammunition or the bulk. Go ahead and choose who you give your sole, spare Glock to in your circle. I will be having 20 people from age 6 up being productive with Mora knives.
No, I am not smarter than the guy who has the wisdom of taking a gun to a gun fight. I simply know that I will not survive more than a couple of man to man gunfights. Moreover, if and when you go and live with the hilltribe people of southeast asia or the peasants in rural Pakistan or Afghanistan, you learn that the common folk avoid gunfights and have tools with them as shtf weapons.

[Bob]

I turned my 23 into a 9mm. As long as I have access to a /.40 barrel....

Where did you buy the conversion barrel? What did it run you?

It was a wise move to get it as it just makes the platform that much more versatile.

Double Diamond? I want to say around $150. Forget where purchased.

Threaded G23 9mm conversion in silver. Works great - never a problem.

[David]

That's a pretty decent price. Still looking for a deal on 357sig barrels for the G22 and P250. If I find a deal, great. If I don't I haven't lost out on anything because I keep them in 40S&W usually anyway. So it's in the 'nice to have' column but definitely not in the 'have to have' column.

For grins though I did swap the barrels in my P2000 and loaded up 357sig Gold Dots for the day. Just because I could and hadn't yet done it.

[David]

I've been re-evaluating my choice of the Glock 22 for my SHTF and PCC/pistol go-bag in light of the recent information I've learned on jams and breakage. I'm thinking that the Glock 45 would be the best option now for either of those scenarios with the HK USPc as a close back up since it uses multiple calibers.

[Ronin.45]

I've been re-evaluating my choice of the Glock 22 for my SHTF and PCC/pistol go-bag in light of the recent information I've learned on jams and breakage. I'm thinking that the Glock 45 would be the best option now for either of those scenarios with the HK USPc as a close back up since it uses multiple calibers.

What did you learn recently about jams and breakage? I may have missed a post.

[David]

I've been re-evaluating my choice of the Glock 22 for my SHTF and PCC/pistol go-bag in light of the recent information I've learned on jams and breakage. I'm thinking that the Glock 45 would be the best option now for either of those scenarios with the HK USPc as a close back up since it uses multiple calibers.

What did you learn recently about jams and breakage? I may have missed a post.

I'll repost from the Glock Thread which was a repost from a conversation on GT. The retired Officer mentioned below was with the St. Petersburg Police Department which was second in size only to my former agency, the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office. They have 550 Officers, we had a little over 2000 sworn Deputies:

Issues with Glocks chambered in 40S&W using WML.

My post:

That is a legitimate concern. I recently mentioned in another thread a conversation I had with a retired Officer at a local PD. I purchased a Sig P365XL from him and when I found out he was retired P.D. and he found out I was retired S.O. we hit it off. Started chatting about guns of course and the ones we carried when we were on-duty. Interestingly enough, circa about 10+ years ago the issued agency sidearm was the Gen 4 G22. I knew (from my instructor circle) that they had had issues but I didn't know the specifics. Turns out that in addition to breakage during in-service quals they had a huge police-action shooting that made national news back around that time. IIRC, two detectives were injured/killed serving a warrant. The suspect went up into the attic and a firefight ensued. He said several of the G22.4's with WML jammed when pointed up and fired into the ceiling. When it was on the horizontal they were fine, except for parts breaking during training. But when the weapon was elevated (and had a WML) they jammed. He was one of the agency instructors involved in the situation. Apparently, Glock at first wasn't very helpful with the situations i.e. plausible deniability. However, it was serious enough after the shooting that Glock sent reps to the agency and the pistols were tested. Glock then acknowledged the problem but tried to say it was only G22's within a specific serial number range. At any rate, bye-bye to the G22's and the agency switched to the G21's.

So yes, it is a legitimate concern for a Glock 40S&W pistol with a WML. Was it just a certain batch? Was that just a Glock cover job? I don't know either way. But it is worth noting because it was serious enough for an entire 500+ member agency to completely switch issued sidearms.

Another members post on a different forum:

It is certainly not contained to a certain batch. I have had the luxury of observing a coupla hundred different G22 and G23 Gen 3's and Gen 4's in action at my department. The frustrating thing is that:

1. Some choke with a WML, some don't. These may even be sequential serial numbered guns.
2. Some don't but, as the gun ages it starts to.
3. Some lights are worse than others.
4. Some ammo causes it worse than others.
5. Some remedies i.e. mag springs, different lights, different tension on light mounts, different ammo ... work for a while and then quit working and some remedies don't work at all.

We were issuing G22 Gen 4's to Uniform and G23 Gen 4's to Non Uniformed deputies. Either way I fought this issue for a coupla years and then decided to ban WML's on .40 GLOCKs at my department. The whole situation was just to whish-washy for me and I refused to gamble with my deputies safety.

The silver lining in the cloud was that was that I was finally able to get the Sheriff to authorize personally purchased GLOCK 9mm's (G17, G19, G45 and G34) and GLOCK .45 ACP (G21, G41 for Uniform, G30, G30S for Non Uniformed). Administrators and Detectives can carry a G26 I had been trying to get him to do this anyway for a coupla years. or G27 also, if they choose.

We are in the process of changing to issued G17 and G19 Gen 5's. But all the above mention GLOCK models will still be authorized for personally purchased authorized carry. Even the G22 and G23 .... but no WML's are allowed on the .40's.

The whole situation just sucks too because I really liked the .40 S&W. Those same .40's that choked with WML's were flawless without WML's attached. But, it is what it is.

I suspect the Gen 5 .40 S&W's will remedy this situation with thier beefier frames and slides. I always felt that 9mm designed guns with .40's shoved in them was never a great idea. The .40 needs a lil more beef. Like the SIG P229, which was designed for .40, and it shows !

But, too little too late for us. We are happy with our 9mm and .45 ACP GLOCKs now. Which BTW, has absolutely zero issues with WML's.

As a side note I wanted to share an interesting experiment I did. I had 2 G23's that were horrible offenders with WMLs. These 2 G23's would not make it through one magazine without choking with a WML (flawless otherwise). I happen to own a Lone Wolf .40-9mm conversion barrel. I left those WML's on those G23's popped in the 9mm conversion barrel and a G19 mag, and I could not get them to malfunction. Both ran perfectly through a coupla hundred rounds of 9mm 115 FMJ and 124 HST's flawlessly.

DeputyDave, your story of the GLOCK .40's, with WML's, choking when fired vertically, but not horizontally is the first I heard of that phenomenon. I never even thought to test them vertically. And I did a lot of testing. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

[Ronin.45]

Gotcha. I didn't know if there was new info. I remember the wml issue on 40s back in the Gen 3 days. Never concerned me because I had no interest in 40.