Survival and Emergency Preparedness

Here's an additional opinion: I got one last week. The LCP Max was $329 again at Sportsman's Warehouse, and I impulse-bought over the 'net and then drove in to pick it up as soon as I got the email that it had arrived.

Did the 4473, drove right from the store to the range and shot it right out of the box. Put 150 rounds of ball (S&B, Winchester, Remington, Fiocchi & the Bosnian Maxxtech stuff (which is surprisingly good)). through it, mostly in 10+1 strings. Had two malfs, both with S&B - round #9 of the second string (slide locked open on loaded mag; pretty sure I didn't touch slide lock; slingshotted and back to it) and round #8 of the third (failure to eject extracted empty; tap, rack/flick and back to it). The 10-round magazine was initially most difficult to load fully, and I suspect that wearing in the mag was the issue. No more malfs as the mag became normal to load. This is the first gun with "slide cocking wings" I've shot that actually seemed to benefit from them (the others were two .22 LRs and a .380 EZ) - no healthy adult "needs" them, but they felt like a nice bit of engineering on this steatopygous Elsie.



Didn't chrono, but based on two other LCPs, I'm planning on carrying S&B ball (had no problems with it over the rest of the box).



The thicker gripframe worked well in my grip and is superior in a man's grasp to the original skinny one. The fully SA trigger was much nicer than the long DA-sans-restrike original, but want anything to brag about. The sights are held to be better and they are just lovely, but I'm not sure they wind up practically better. Unlike the fat ramps on the second iteration of the LCP, these make you want to actually slow down and precisely aim ... not that you get better results than I do with the put-the-fat-thing-on-the-target-and-stroke of the LCP's first revamp that I still have around. Anyway, actual accuracy was no better than the original Elsie (to wit: the same as most J-frames in my hands at 10 yards - meh, but exactly as expected), though these sights might not have been regulated to where this ammo was going (low, for the most part - although I got some first rounds exactly at my POA, so maybe it's me. That's probably the way to be, I guess). Tritium front sight works great in the dark and it just fits perfectly into the notch of the black, ramped, serrated rear - whether light or dark. The sights are really beautifully done - I'm just not sure it makes any practical difference. At night, the LCP Max's front tritium is one of the better big, fat glowing dots I've ever seen, though - and I've been running tritiums on guns since '89, I think.

The LCP Max was dirtier than I'd expected after my shooting (especially after recently shooting the much-cleaner-than-you'd-think LCP-II .22 LR) and I flipped the mag release for lefty pocket carry while cleaning.

The Bosnian MaxxTech ammo was the most accurate of the types I tried, and actually made decently small groups. The others were more random, whether off the bags or offhand (I did mostly two-hand-supported offhand shooting, but some one-hand, both strong and weak); it certainly could be that I just need to get more used to the gun. Often I'd find the first shot going precisely to where my sights were pointed, but subsequent shots spreading out.

Also, the trigger is interesting. Loooong SA. It has some creep with big grits, but when it finally "walls up," it walls-up good and solid, and CHUNK! - you're off to the races. Then there's an almost aggressive reset (which I dug), but it's LOOOONG. At least there's not false reset as on some of Ruger's fine DA revolvers. P-)

This is the fourth LCP I've bought. Gave the first one away after buying the second (raspberry color, with the model upgrades), bought the .22 recently and now this one.



"Rocket" Rob Leahy got this Simply Rugged Pocket Protector to me faster than you can say, "Prescott, Arizona."



And, as a 20%-off premade, it wound up being cheaper than an eBay no-name.

With a 12-rounder in place, the gun has a feel reminiscent of the PX4 Compact's: long in the grip but short in the slide. Which is not in any way bad; I comment only because it's unusual for my concealed guns to feel longer in the gripframe than in the barrel/slide assembly.

With the 12+1 in place, the LCP Max still pocket-carries (at least in my LAPG casual "tactical" pants) very well in the Simply Rugged Pocket Protector - maybe a little better (at least in these pants) than it does with the 10-rounder, as the holstered gun seems to fill the pocket better front-to-back and doesn't want to rotate as much. I suspect the situation might be different with different pants (tighter jeans, for instance).

I like it!

Nice review. I would slap a belt clip on it and call it a day for carrying.

Erich wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:12 pm The LCP Max was $329 again at Sportsman's Warehouse

That's a very good price. Less expensive than the one I got so good deal for you

Erich wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:12 pm The thicker gripframe worked well in my grip and is superior in a man's grasp to the original skinny one.

Makes it much more pleasant to shoot as well. Still has somewhat stout recoil due to the light weight of the pistol, but much more manageable than the previous models.

Erich wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:12 pm The sights are really beautifully done - I'm just not sure it makes any practical difference. At night, the LCP Max's front tritium is one of the better big, fat glowing dots I've ever seen, though - and I've been running tritiums on guns since '89, I think.

The sights are a very nice feature compared to earlier models, imo. I think they're an improvement and I agree, that front sight is nice and big and bright. Transitions the LCP over to actually being a 'real' pistol.

And that's a really nice holster as well. And I also agree on the 12-round mag. Provides me a solid 3-finger grip and really doesn't effect/interfere with pocket carry at all.

Good review and glad you like it.

Thank you for leading the way - without your reports, I wouldn't have paid much attention to it, Dave. Many thanks!

I agree that these revamps make the LCP a real pistol. I remember the first of Kelgren's designs was the loaded-from-stripper-clips Grendel P10, way back in 1988. I had five, serially - none of them worked, and the gun store kept giving me another to try. Eventually the owner just gave me my money back - too bad. When Grendel brought out the P12 (with a removable magazine) a couple years later, I stayed away - and heard much the same reports. It was only when the new Kel-Tec corporation brought out Kelgren's P-11 than he finally had one that worked (not that I had a lot of faith in it - though I was happy to see my friends' faith rewarded with that model).

Ruger's ripoff of the P3AT certainly improved on the original, and Ruger's revamp of the LCP was a big improvement over that. And the LCP-II was certainly another step forward.

But this LCP Max? This has fully arrived.

nice report

Erich wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:30 pm Thank you for leading the way - without your reports, I wouldn't have paid much attention to it, Dave. Many thanks!

My pleasure

Erich wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:30 pm I agree that these revamps make the LCP a real pistol. I remember the first of Kelgren's designs was the loaded-from-stripper-clips Grendel P10, way back in 1988. I had five, serially - none of them worked, and the gun store kept giving me another to try. Eventually the owner just gave me my money back - too bad. When Grendel brought out the P12 (with a removable magazine) a couple years later, I stayed away - and heard much the same reports. It was only when the new Kel-Tec corporation brought out Kelgren's P-11 than he finally had one that worked (not that I had a lot of faith in it - though I was happy to see my friends' faith rewarded with that model).

Ruger's ripoff of the P3AT certainly improved on the original, and Ruger's revamp of the LCP was a big improvement over that. And the LCP-II was certainly another step forward.

But this LCP Max? This has fully arrived.

I'm curious to see if other manufacturers will follow suit. Like S&W with their Bodyguard for example.

And I'd also like to see the .380 round itself worked on to produce a bullet that both penetrates and expands reliably. Right now, for the most part, it's one or the other. The XTP for example gets decent penetrations but only marginal expansion. The Gold Dot, which is my favorite in other calibers gets great expansion but usually less than 9 inches penetration. It would be nice to see a round that consistently gets both.

Don't know if that will happen though and we'll have to see if this 30 Super Carry catches on or not perhaps?

David wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:31 am
I'd also like to see the .380 round itself worked on to produce a bullet that both penetrates and expands reliably. Right now, for the most part, it's one or the other.

I think simple physics precludes such a magic round: with SAAMI-spec .380, you have a low weight bullet at relatively low speeds. You put JHP expansion "brakes" on a low speed round, and it doesn't penetrate. It can't. Yes, a 9x19 (heavier and faster = more energy) can both penetrate and expand. So can a .45 (heavier and same speed = more energy) or the .30 Super Duper Carry (same weight and faster = more energy). A .380 doesn't have enough energy to both expand and penetrate: that seems pretty evident.

But it doesn't matter.

I used to work for an office that handled about 90% of the criminal appeals in the state of New Mexico, and I got to be the "firearms guy" for our the statewide law office. I have worked in some capacity on a lot of cases (a couple dozen - appellate and trial level) in which there were shootings with .380s. I've seen a number of real world failures to adequately penetrate by .380 JHPs, and I've only seen a single instance of overpenetration by a .380 ball round (which hit the calf of the person who was shot and went through).

Based on seeing a couple hundred handgun killings and more shootings, reading the police reports, seeing the autopsy reports and evidence photos (JHPs often don't expand much, but even if they do it only matters if they're in the right place), talking to the shooters in many instances, I am of the reasonably informed opinion that the only thing that appears to guarantee a stop of aggressive action is a hole in the heart/aorta or brain/spinal cord. Not energy transfer, not caliber, not even number of rounds in the BG - all that can matter depending on the situation/person, but what always does matter is a hole in the pericardium - all the action stops, right there.

Since (as my old tagline on internet forums used to read) "Shot placement is king; adequate penetration is queen; everything else is just angels dancing on the heads of pins," I feel fine with using .380 ball - it's accurate and penetrative enough out of my guns to target the vitals that need to be hit in order to guarantee a stop, and it's unlikely to blast through and go through the school bus of nuns behind the BG.

No expansion? No problem. A hole in the heart/aorta or brain/spinal cord and the BG is not hassling me. And a .380 ball will do it - with reliable ignition and feeding.

(You most certainly want to use JHPs in 9x19 or .45 ACP - otherwise the busload of nuns is in grave danger. Keep that energy in the bad guy! And, as a bonus, your round has the minuscule potential advantage of damaging a vital structure that it wouldn't have struck had it not expanded.)

Erich wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:36 am

David wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:31 am
I'd also like to see the .380 round itself worked on to produce a bullet that both penetrates and expands reliably. Right now, for the most part, it's one or the other.

I think simple physics precludes such a magic round: with SAAMI-spec .380, you have a low weight bullet at relatively low speeds. You put JHP expansion "brakes" on a low speed round, and it doesn't penetrate. It can't. Yes, a 9x19 (heavier and faster = more energy) can both penetrate and expand. So can a .45 (heavier and same speed = more energy) or the .30 Super Duper Carry (same weight and faster = more energy). A .380 doesn't have enough energy to both expand and penetrate: that seems pretty evident.

But it doesn't matter.

I used to work for an office that handled about 90% of the criminal appeals in the state of New Mexico, and I got to be the "firearms guy" for our the statewide law office. I have worked in some capacity on a lot of cases (a couple dozen - appellate and trial level) in which there were shootings with .380s. I've seen a number of real world failures to adequately penetrate by .380 JHPs, and I've only seen a single instance of overpenetration by a .380 ball round (which hit the calf of the person who was shot and went through).

Based on seeing a couple hundred handgun killings and more shootings, reading the police reports, seeing the autopsy reports and evidence photos (JHPs often don't expand much, but even if they do it only matters if they're in the right place), talking to the shooters in many instances, I am of the reasonably informed opinion that the only thing that appears to guarantee a stop of aggressive action is a hole in the heart/aorta or brain/spinal cord. Not energy transfer, not caliber, not even number of rounds in the BG - all that can matter depending on the situation/person, but what always does matter is a hole in the pericardium - all the action stops, right there.

Since (as my old tagline on internet forums used to read) "Shot placement is king; adequate penetration is queen; everything else is just angels dancing on the heads of pins," I feel fine with using .380 ball - it's accurate and penetrative enough out of my guns to target the vitals that need to be hit in order to guarantee a stop, and it's unlikely to blast through and go through the school bus of nuns behind the BG.

No expansion? No problem. A hole in the heart/aorta or brain/spinal cord and the BG is not hassling me. And a .380 ball will do it - with reliable ignition and feeding.

(You most certainly want to use JHPs in 9x19 or .45 ACP - otherwise the busload of nuns is in grave danger. Keep that energy in the bad guy! And, as a bonus, your round has the minuscule potential advantage of damaging a vital structure that it wouldn't have struck had it not expanded.)

Absolutely right on all counts. The object of shooting someone is to stop them and the way to do that is by punching holes in vital organs.

I wanted to include my original range report into this thread for future reference and to have it all in one place. This is from last year.

Took the LCP Max to the range today. Fired a total of 168 rounds. 50 rounds 0f WWB FMJ, 50 rounds of PMC FMJ and 68 rounds of assorted HP's including FXT, XTP, Gold Dot and Golden Sabre.

Malfunctions: Zero. Very pleased with it's performance. Slide locked back every time. I was even able to drop the slide with my thumb, which worked well since I can't fully use my left hand till I heal up further.

Accuracy: Pistol didn't care much for the WWB as opposed to the PMC and hollow points. Accuracy with the WWB was okay and I would still have hit a man-sized target in the torso at 7 yards but the WWB seemed to have more flyers. The PMC and all the HP's all held a much tighter group. I was pulling slightly to the left but that was me shooting strictly one-handed and getting use to the pistol. With the PMC and HP's I could still do head shots at 7 yards shooting at a fair pace. So overall I'd say the accuracy at typical SD distances was very acceptable to very good with the right ammo. Normally I could easily make head shots at 12-15 yards with the LCP 2 I had using a two-hand hold and taking my time. I suspect I'll be able to do that with this pistol as well once I'm back to using a firm two-hand hold.

Trigger: This is not a $2k match grade race gun trigger. But for what it is I'd say it's quite acceptable. Definite wall and then fairly 'heavy/crisp' break that was consistent from shot to shot. I liked this trigger better than the trigger on my LCP 2.

Recoil: You still know your shooting a 10 ounce pistol. But I was able to shoot all 168 rounds one-handed. Started to get a slight blister on my trigger finger towards the end but I could say the recoil overall did feel like it was better distributed than with my LCP or LCP 2. With my LCP I was done after a couple of mags. The LCP 2 was fine for 50-100 rounds. This one was doable for 168 one-handed. Still need to have a firm grip on it though to control it. I was able to rapid fire 'fairly' quickly one-handed but a firm two-hand grip would definitely make it quicker.

Mags: I have one 10-rnd and one 12-rnd. No issues loading either (son did the majority of the loading). I was able to slowly load some rounds into the 12-rounder so I was pleased with that.

Sights: Well what can I say? Going from milled in nubs to actual real sights is night and day. Very pleased with how easy the front sight is to pick up and how bright the night sight is. The U-notch makes it easy to pick up the front sight.

Texture: Aggressive enough to allow you to keep a grip but bot so much it's going to cause a problem tearing up your pocket. Nothing particularly special.

I've had it to the range two or three more times since then and still zero malfunctions. If I'm not carrying my P365 I'm carrying the Max.

Thanks, Dave - that's what got me interested in sticking my toe in the water, and I'm really very glad that I did. The LCP Max is way more than the sum of its features (low weight, reliable, tiny, decently trustworthy caliber, great capacity, good sights, easy to shoot, great value, safe, accurate enough, trustworthy maker, readily available) and I think it's going to become a lot more ubiquitous in the years to come.