Capacity

[aerynsun]

Paul has 7 or 8 guns on his top 5 list, but that’s Paul. Most of them revolve around a higher capacity platform. His reason for changing goes in hand with my view at this time that social unrest is off the chain and likely to get worse before it gets better.

I also thought it was interesting that he advocates for a MS. Paul and I were in agreement on that point.

Also of interest is his pick of the Sig P365 which he recently reviewed. Curious if that is his normal EDC?

His criteria is:
1. available to him
2. use safely
3. sufficient to task
4. he likes the classics
5. fosters program compliance - coinvent to carry

I think he is off and could lead to the wrong choice.
In the order of importance:
1. size and weight that you will carry it
2. reliable - this is really not an issue with today's modern guns
3. can fire it accurately under stress repeatable
4. caliber
5. capacity

too many people focus on caliber and capacity, which leads to a large gun or a smaller gun that they can not fire accurately under pressure. I had a Keltec p11 - it was small but I could not control the recoil of multiple shots under stress.

[Smoke]

Hello. This is my first post, thanks for having me.

The TL/DR version is I'm not comfortable with less than 10 rounds my preference is 17 but I'm limited to 15 so that's what I carry.

I didn't just arrive at that number several things affected my decision.

First, I work as a security guard. I've been doing it for a while and it's given me a lot of opportunities to just watch people. I would say 50% of the time I interact with shady people at work it's two people. Almost never more than that but more often than not two.

Second I remember reading a discussion on another forum that had two do with the hit rate for cops involved in shooting incidents, the average was a 30% hit rate. If I go up against two guys with a six shot revolver I can expect TWO hits AT BEST. The more rounds the better my odds.

Finally the very first handgun I ever owned was a S&W model 915. It held 15 rounds so that's what I'm used to.

[Ronin.45]

Don't limit yourself to LEO hit rates. It's pretty easy to become way more proficient than the average officer.
Carrying a larger gun for any kind of duty use just makes sense. You're much more likely to have a violent encounter on the job than as a civilian.

[David]

Hello. This is my first post, thanks for having me.

The TL/DR version is I'm not comfortable with less than 10 rounds my preference is 17 but I'm limited to 15 so that's what I carry.

I didn't just arrive at that number several things affected my decision.

First, I work as a security guard. I've been doing it for a while and it's given me a lot of opportunities to just watch people. I would say 50% of the time I interact with shady people at work it's two people. Almost never more than that but more often than not two.

Second I remember reading a discussion on another forum that had two do with the hit rate for cops involved in shooting incidents, the average was a 30% hit rate. If I go up against two guys with a six shot revolver I can expect TWO hits AT BEST. The more rounds the better my odds.

Finally the very first handgun I ever owned was a S&W model 915. It held 15 rounds so that's what I'm used to.

First off, welcome to the board.

I agree that, if possible, 10 rounds is a minimum. Now that can certainly be effected with the pistol carried. For example, my LCP II is 7+1 but if I'm at a wedding or some other formal gathering and I'm in a suit or dress slacks with a tucked in shirt it is difficult to have something larger. But I'll also have a second mag in my pocket with another 6 rounds. Not ideal, but at least I'm following the first rule of having a gun, which is to have a gun, lol.

But normal carry is a P365 with 12+1 and a 15-round mag for spare. I find that is acceptable.

On duty it was a Glock 21 so it was 13+1 with two 13-round spare mags. However, there was also access to a radio for back up, body armor etc. Walking around normal you're your own first responder. So what you have on you is pretty much all you're going to be able to rely on.

Will what you carry take care of a single attacker? Will it take care of a single attacker on drugs? Will it take care of multiple attackers? Questions we all have to answer to our own satisfaction. And within reason for what we will realistically carry.

[Smoke]

Don't limit yourself to LEO hit rates. It's pretty easy to become way more proficient than the average officer.
Carrying a larger gun for any kind of duty use just makes sense. You're much more likely to have a violent encounter on the job than as a civilian.

I'm trying to keep myself within the limits of the topic, the smallest capacity that I'm willing to carry is 10 rounds.

What I carry normally is a Glock19. I also carry two reloads but the odds of my ever using them are pretty close to nil. I have had training and I do practice but I couldn't find any statistics for citizen involved shootings so I went with the police stats.

As a private citizen the odds are a million to one that I will ever need to fire as much as one shot but if (God forbid) I ever beat the odds I don't want the bare minimum I want to have more ammunition than I will ever need.

My -"carry rotation" is a Ruger LC9 with a factory 9 round magazine or a Glock 26 with a factory 12 round magazine or the Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine. I carry the largest one I can effectively conceal.

[David]

I have had training and I do practice but I couldn't find any statistics for citizen involved shootings so I went with the police stats.

Agreed. Paul Harrell has talked about this several times in his videos. Just really hard to collect valid statistics of citizen involved shootings. First, they aren't use to 'making a report' on what happened, probably have experienced an adrenaline dump, maybe suffered an injury. Also the news isn't exactly top notch at reporting specifics or even accurate details. All of this can really fog over details of a shooting.

My -"carry rotation" is a Ruger LC9 with a factory 9 round magazine or a Glock 26 with a factory 12 round magazine or the Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine.

Some good choices

Someone on a different board put it a good way when he stated that carrying an extra mag really didn't put him out that much. I have a good mag holster and forget that I'm wearing it so it isn't an inconvenience. Kytex Shooting Gear is the best I've found.

[David]

Here are my current capacity option choices:

HK USPc w/12-round mag in pistol, one in the chamber and 12-round spare mag = 25 rounds of 40S&W.
Sig P365 w/12-round mag in pistol, one in the chamber and 15-round spare = 28 rounds of 9mm.
Glock 45 w/17-round mag in pistol, one in the chamber and 17-round spare = 35 rounds of 9mm.

[David]

Saw this statement on another forum and liked it.

Only two times you can have too much ammo. If you are swimming or on fire.

As such, I'm now carrying the Sig P365XL with 12+1 and a spare 15-round mag in my Kytex shooting Gear mag holder. In my sling bag is the P365 with a 12-round mag and I have two 10-round mags that are set up with base plates so as to be usable with either pistol. The P265 is mainly a spare because it's been difficult to get my wife to put her pistol in her purse. So since the Maxpedition Lunada has a CCW pocket with hook-n-loop and I had a spare universal holster it really wasn't an issue to toss the P365 in the bag.

[David]

I saw this article on another forum and thought it related well to this thread on capacity.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/th ... b43af3d969

I don't see where specific models or calibers were mentioned. Excerpt;

Camarena was wearing a ballistic vest that belonged to the officer and was holding one of his guns, both of which he had found in the officer's car, according to the report.

After Beyda drew his service weapon and identified himself as a police officer, Camarena opened fire, hitting Beyda in the chest, according to the report. The officer fired back and then fled the garage. He collapsed on a walkway near his complex's pool, the report said.

So a couple of things immediately come to mind; First, don't leave weapons in your vehicle (or other gear that can be used against you). Secondly, it sucks to be in a firefight and run out of ammo.

I know several here are comfortable in their choice to not carry a spare mag. And I respect that. Many stats indicate that the average number of rounds fired in an average gun fight are very low, like 2-3 rounds. And those stats may be accurate. But it also brings to mind that if those are averages then there are also outliers with a higher number of rounds fired. I don't want to be involved in the average, much less the outlier.

Just some thoughts to further the conversation

[aerynsun]

This homeless issue is only getting worse - look at NYC and SF.