Survival and Emergency Preparedness

Ronin.45 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:00 pm What aerynsun is preaching was a very common way of thinking for years. Not so much anymore.

Why not? Enlighten us, please.

aerynsun wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:13 pm

Ronin.45 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:00 pm What aerynsun is preaching was a very common way of thinking for years. Not so much anymore.

Why not? Enlighten us, please.

The fear of "shooting at the light" is not a prevalent because people aren't crack shots under stress. They may shoot in the general direction of the light out of reflex, but not with any precision. It makes no difference if the light is centerline or slightly off center. The only way holding the light could make you safer is if you held it straight out at full arm's length, but that makes everything else way too cumbersome.
I recommend everyone seek out some low light shooting near them. Simply going through an IDPA stage in the dark teaches you what works and what doesn't. There are reasons why tactics change over the years. Just like strobes were a big thing 10 years ago, but nobody uses them now. It was a novel idea with minimal value.

Ronin.45 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:05 pm

aerynsun wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:13 pm

Ronin.45 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:00 pm What aerynsun is preaching was a very common way of thinking for years. Not so much anymore.

Why not? Enlighten us, please.

The fear of "shooting at the light" is not a prevalent because people aren't crack shots under stress. They may shoot in the general direction of the light out of reflex, but not with any precision. It makes no difference if the light is centerline or slightly off center. The only way holding the light could make you safer is if you held it straight out at full arm's length, but that makes everything else way too cumbersome.
I recommend everyone seek out some low light shooting near them. Simply going through an IDPA stage in the dark teaches you what works and what doesn't. There are reasons why tactics change over the years. Just like strobes were a big thing 10 years ago, but nobody uses them now. It was a novel idea with minimal value.

A person does not need to be a crack shot. We are talking about relatively small distances.

We discussed the - straight full arm's length argument before and dismissed it.

You haven't told us why "What aerynsun is preaching was a very common way of thinking for years. Not so much anymore."

What you should be teaching us about is what the NEW way of thinking is and how a gun owner employs it.

No one here is trying to argumentative. But it would be helpful if you read all the previous posts. Is you say something was an old way of thinking you should be able to say what the old way of thinking is and what the new way of thinking is.

Thanks

aerynsun wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:46 pm

Ronin.45 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:05 pm

aerynsun wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:13 pm

Why not? Enlighten us, please.

The fear of "shooting at the light" is not a prevalent because people aren't crack shots under stress. They may shoot in the general direction of the light out of reflex, but not with any precision. It makes no difference if the light is centerline or slightly off center. The only way holding the light could make you safer is if you held it straight out at full arm's length, but that makes everything else way too cumbersome.
I recommend everyone seek out some low light shooting near them. Simply going through an IDPA stage in the dark teaches you what works and what doesn't. There are reasons why tactics change over the years. Just like strobes were a big thing 10 years ago, but nobody uses them now. It was a novel idea with minimal value.

A person does not need to be a crack shot. We are talking about relatively small distances.

We discussed the - straight full arm's length argument before and dismissed it.

You haven't told us why "What aerynsun is preaching was a very common way of thinking for years. Not so much anymore."

What you should be teaching us about is what the NEW way of thinking is and how a gun owner employs it.

No one here is trying to argumentative. But it would be helpful if you read all the previous posts. Is you say something was an old way of thinking you should be able to say what the old way of thinking is and what the new way of thinking is.

Thanks

The modern method is a weapon mounted light or a handheld light held with the gun. Both allow a proper two-handed grip on the weapon. As other have said, having the light mounted leaves your weak hand free to call the police, open doors, grab a loved one, etc.

Ronin.45 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:21 pm

aerynsun wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:46 pm

Ronin.45 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:05 pm

The fear of "shooting at the light" is not a prevalent because people aren't crack shots under stress. They may shoot in the general direction of the light out of reflex, but not with any precision. It makes no difference if the light is centerline or slightly off center. The only way holding the light could make you safer is if you held it straight out at full arm's length, but that makes everything else way too cumbersome.
I recommend everyone seek out some low light shooting near them. Simply going through an IDPA stage in the dark teaches you what works and what doesn't. There are reasons why tactics change over the years. Just like strobes were a big thing 10 years ago, but nobody uses them now. It was a novel idea with minimal value.

A person does not need to be a crack shot. We are talking about relatively small distances.

We discussed the - straight full arm's length argument before and dismissed it.

You haven't told us why "What aerynsun is preaching was a very common way of thinking for years. Not so much anymore."

What you should be teaching us about is what the NEW way of thinking is and how a gun owner employs it.

No one here is trying to argumentative. But it would be helpful if you read all the previous posts. Is you say something was an old way of thinking you should be able to say what the old way of thinking is and what the new way of thinking is.

Thanks

The modern method is a weapon mounted light or a handheld light held with the gun. Both allow a proper two-handed grip on the weapon. As other have said, having the light mounted leaves your weak hand free to call the police, open doors, grab a loved one, etc.

I appreciate you comments but I don't see how it addresses the above.

I suggest we agree to disagree.

Good talk.

For those interested:
6 Flashlight Shooting Techniques You Must Know


https://www.usacarry.com/flashlight-sho ... echniques/

I would not recommend mounting your flashlight on your pistol.
This causes the major problem of pointing a loaded gun at everything you shine your light on. If your 16-year-old son is sneaking in the basement and you run down there to shine a light to see who it is, I doubt you want to point the loaded firearm at your kid.

I can’t talk about flashlight techniques without mentioning the old FBI technique. This is where you hold the flashlight in the “ice pick” grip up in the air and away from your body. The theory behind this technique is that you’ll disorient an attacker because they won’t know where you’re at and if they shoot at the light they won’t hit you.

Have there been issues with someone discharging a pistol with a WML at an unintended target? I'm not familiar with any though I'm not saying it's never happened. All of our agency G21's have WML on them and we actually had a similar situation to the above scenario. Female Sgt. heard someone in the garage during the night. Using her duty G21 she identified herself and challenged the intruder. The intruder turned out to be her teenage son with headphones on so he didn't hear the mom. Something like he was doing a late night raid on the fridge in the garage or something. She didn't have her finger on the trigger and it had a happy ending.

I agree with Ronin above in his observations that a WML could allow you to have that support hand free to do other things than hold a flashlight. I use to be an EP Agent at one time in my life and sweeping the protectee behind you with your free hand was part of the training (read a loved one).

Modern lights create plenty of light to see what's going on without pointing your gun at everything. Proper trigger finger discipline is needed no matter what technique you use.

David wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:20 pm Have there been issues with someone discharging a pistol with a WML at an unintended target? I'm not familiar with any though I'm not saying it's never happened. All of our agency G21's have WML on them and we actually had a similar situation to the above scenario. Female Sgt. heard someone in the garage during the night. Using her duty G21 she identified herself and challenged the intruder. The intruder turned out to be her teenage son with headphones on so he didn't hear the mom. Something like he was doing a late night raid on the fridge in the garage or something. She didn't have her finger on the trigger and it had a happy ending.

I agree with Ronin above in his observations that a WML could allow you to have that support hand free to do other things than hold a flashlight. I use to be an EP Agent at one time in my life and sweeping the protectee behind you with your free hand was part of the training (read a loved one).

As I said, I agree that the recommendation is different for law enforcement for various reason.

Again - if I'm holding my USP in my hand at night with the light on - I am going to point it at any and everything I think relevant.

This is not safety first time. I'm also going to have a round in the chamber and the safety off. It IS entirely possible that I might accidentally shoot the wrong person. On the other hand - I will absolutely have illuminated the person before I do that.

As Dave mentioned - more than easy enough to not point the light right at someone and see just fine.

There is old thinking, new thinking, and what will no doubt be the latest new thinking that will make the new thinking the old thinking and the old thinking ancient thinking. every situation and every person is different. You need to choose for you.

Same thing with racking the shotgun. I'm racking and shouting. I'm giving bad guys, family and random lost drunks every opportunity to get out or duck. I also believe a lot of SWAT thinking etc is over-militarized thinking looking at worst case scenarios that are not most common ones. Dave points out a great example. That probably happens a hundred time for every actual bad guy in the home. Yet there are not hundreds or reported accidental shootings of this type.

Remember - as we "discuss" this there are a hundred assumptions that you make in every scenario.