Survival and Emergency Preparedness

David wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:41 pm

JDH wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:32 pm Privatization is the only answer.

Most jails/prisons that I'm aware of that have privatized end up going back to certified personnel. The only reason to consider it in the first place is financial, but usually ends up costing more in the end. Rather than paying a Corrections Officer X amount of dollars they get personnel in at a vastly reduced rate of pay but they have vastly less experience/training.

Privatize the police (not that it is possible) and you may as well have vigilantes. No way a private company is going to match the amount of training required to do the job on a consistent basis along with the required infrastructure.

FBOP Retired here. Every time the issue of privatization came up in congress the facility in which I worked was used as the FBOP control that was compared to two private prisons one Wackenhut and one CCA of similar size and security level. Our officers made higher pay than their guards. Still we came in at almost 50% of the per inmate/day cost that they did. We averaged fewer incidents and had a lower recidivism rate than did they. So yes, we lowlife government employees did the job better and at a lower cost. Still we were demonized at every turn by people who failed to realize private prisons are a for profit entity that pays shit wages to employees who barely meet minimum qualifications.

So, privatization is the only answer.

Ahhh - forgot to use the sarcasm font...

David wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:11 pm Police shoot and kill around 600 people a year. Most of that number are of course good shootings.

Interesting....in all of US 2 per day is pretty small. "Most" is a bit squishy - but still....interesting fact there.

How many are no-quesiton good shoots, how many questionable, and how many bad? I'd like to know - but tough to dig out I suppose.

There are problems potentially besides killings though. You can do a lot wrong with authority and a gun without killing someone

By contrast, private citizens kill over 1500 bad guys a year. Way more than police on average. Simply a numbers game. There are way more armed private citizens than police.

Bob wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:30 pm How many are no-quesiton good shoots, how many questionable, and how many bad? I'd like to know - but tough to dig out I suppose.

Something to consider is that because the 'layman' usually isn't familiar with violence (other than the movies) they really don't have a good grasp on what is a good shoot vs. a bad shoot. Even within law enforcement you have the administrative types that really don't have a good handle on it which is scary as they are the ones that often make policy. As an example, I was in a training class years ago where they showed videos of uses-of-force with no back story. The question was asked which was good and which was bad. Had a Sgt. (who later became a Lt.) and a suck-up Corporal who'd never been in a use in his career both say they were horrified and would have sent each to internal affairs. I was still a Deputy at the time (and an outspoken one) and told them that each was a good uses-of-force and that neither knew policy. I was right, each was in fact a good use-of-force.

Although it isn't always followed, policy usually dictates that a determination CANNOT be made based solely on video evidence. That is why I don't rush to judgement just because of a video that the MSM puts on the nightly news. I wait to see what all the facts are before making judgement. Layman will see that video and rush to judgement without knowing the full facts of the matter. And video can and is manipulated and/or the perspective changes if viewed from another angle.

One training video shows an Officer shooting a man in front of a convenient store. From the angle of the video it looks like the police shooting an unarmed man and would likely be the video the MSM splashes across the nightly news. However, dash-cam from another patrol car coming in from a different angle shows the man drawing a pistol from under his shirt. The Officer chasing him saw it which is why he shot the bad guy.

I was in a use-of-force a couple of years ago with one of my Deputies (I was a Corporal). We broke 13 of his ribs and shattered his eye socket. Joe Layman looking at it or hearing about it would probably think it was an excessive use-of-force. In fact, it was a good use-of-force, completely justified and we had a Capt. watching that told us we did an excellent job. On top of it, we were later told we saved the mans life. Why? He was suffering from excited delirium. He shattered a security window with his fist and was trying to injure/kill himself when we intervened. I tased him twice with zero result. He had super human strength and felt zero pain. It took 10 minutes for myself and my partner to subdue him (and my partner is 6'8 and 425 lbs). Only by injuring him were we able to subdue him long enough to provide him medical care that saved his life. The E.R. doctor, after the brain scan, stated the guy would have died if we hadn't intervened, subdued him and gotten him medical attention. Better to have busted ribs and be alive than not and be dead.

Bob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:13 am I'm gonna throw this out here and see what we think. And you don't have to distinguish "problem" from "need improvements/changes" in general.

Skipping the general political hoo-haa of there moment...WOuld it be a good idea for some general reforms?

What is amazing is that in most police departments; the officer is solo. They should be paired up.

NYC does it. It helps to keep emotions of both the police and person stopped under control Things don't escalate.

aerynsun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:18 pm

Bob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:13 am I'm gonna throw this out here and see what we think. And you don't have to distinguish "problem" from "need improvements/changes" in general.

Skipping the general political hoo-haa of there moment...WOuld it be a good idea for some general reforms?

What is amazing is that in most police departments; the officer is solo. They should be paired up.

NYC does it. It helps to keep emotions of both the police and person stopped under control Things don't escalate.

When I dispatched, we would only had one officer on duty at night. Some nights we didn't have any and the officer serving as detective took callout. Now that was almost 30 years ago, so things have changed some, but most of the time our little town only has two officers on duty, they then have a 'powershift' with a third car. The town next to our farm, they have a full-time police chief and a few part time officers. When no one is on duty , the county covers, which has three deputies on for the whole county, if they are lucky, they will have an extra one duty.

So for rural areas, having more than one officer in a car isn't feasible.

Bmyers wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:32 am

aerynsun wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:18 pm

Bob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:13 am I'm gonna throw this out here and see what we think. And you don't have to distinguish "problem" from "need improvements/changes" in general.

Skipping the general political hoo-haa of there moment...WOuld it be a good idea for some general reforms?

What is amazing is that in most police departments; the officer is solo. They should be paired up.

NYC does it. It helps to keep emotions of both the police and person stopped under control Things don't escalate.

When I dispatched, we would only had one officer on duty at night. Some nights we didn't have any and the officer serving as detective took callout. Now that was almost 30 years ago, so things have changed some, but most of the time our little town only has two officers on duty, they then have a 'powershift' with a third car. The town next to our farm, they have a full-time police chief and a few part time officers. When no one is on duty , the county covers, which has three deputies on for the whole county, if they are lucky, they will have an extra one duty.

So for rural areas, having more than one officer in a car isn't feasible.

Probably not needed in a rural area. More need in suburban and urban areas.

Two to a cruiser is always a good idea. Immediate back up. Someone to be accountable to as well as taking over if you start to lose control or communication isn't showing effective results. It's the bean counters that put the nix on it unfortunately. Officer presence (how many cruisers you see on the street) is more important than Officer safety.

I shot with a trooper friend of mine last night. Normally one of the happiest go lucky guys, always joking and encouraging others. Not so last night, he was still pleasant, but you can tell all this is weighing on him heavily. I asked his girlfriend how he was doing, she said this political climate is really taking a toll on him.

He is one of those that would go out of his way to help you out, change a tire on your car if you needed help, just a great all around person, I hated to see what this has done to him.

David wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:48 pm Two to a cruiser is always a good idea.

And up until COVID19 virus crisis was a common practice in this area. Now a bunch of CVPIs have been pulled out of mothballs so each officer can have their own car. Social Distancing don't you know.