10MM/45 Super

[David]

Anyone have one/has had one? What kind and how did you like it?

Thinking about getting a Glock 21 and then the barrel/RSA/extractor to set it up as a G20 for a 2-in-1 platform. First, I've had G21's over the years and I like them. And of course the G21.3 was my duty pistol so I've been carrying them for 15+ years. I don't have any 45acp pistols anymore but thinking I'd like to get back into one so that I have access to the caliber. Thinking Glock 21.4 because I like the texturing and back straps.

Secondly, I've never owned a 10mm. Don't think I've ever shot one either come to think of it. I know it's more of a niche caliber but what the heck, be interesting to have access to one. So from what I've seen, a G21 to G20 conversion is pretty easy and simple whereas the reverse isn't.

Thoughts and experience welcome.

[JDH]

Guessing you are talking about putting a conversion barrel in the 21 slide. If so it is not the route I would go. While it may work it will never be as reliable as it could be. Then there is the potential for confusion having a 10mm barrel in a slide marked 45.

If it were me I would obtain a 20 upper assembly. Aside from having a properly marked slide to change from one to the other is simply slide one off the frame, slide the other on. No muss, no fuss.

I went with a S&W 1006. It was back in the 10 round mag limit days. I didn't see the sense of having a double stack wide grip that was limited to 10 rounds. But I did have a G29 for a time until a G20 owner who wanted an off duty/back up in a matching caliber made me an offer I couldn't refuse.

Yes, you don want a 10mm.

[David]

From my understanding, a conversion barrel, RSA, extractor and mags should be what is necessary for a reliable pistol. A compete upper isn’t out of the question, though I’d imagine quite a bit more expensive.

[Bob]

Dave - 10mm is the forbidden caliber!

Please create a sub forum entitled Thermo-nuclear Devices for discussions. of this round.

[David]

Dave - 10mm is the forbidden caliber!

Please create a sub forum entitled Thermo-nuclear Devices for discussions. of this round.

Is that where I'd put the '10mm vs 44 mag' and '10mm vs 357sig' threads?

Speaking of that, here's a video to spark some discussion...



Now here are some things I took away from this video; First, watching people in his crew shoot the 10mm was interesting. For most it seemed they weren't expecting the amount of recoil but yet it was still fairly manageable. The short barreled revolver on the other hand seemed dangerously close to being wrenched from their grip. I've fired 44 mag before from a longer barreled revolver and while stout I don't recall it being terrible. Maybe Mac or some of the other 44 guys can weigh in as far as felt recoil from various sizes of revolver. The short barreled revolver just didn't seem like it would be something fun enough to shoot in order to properly train with. Second, if you can't shoot something enough to train with it then you're relying more on luck than skill when a situation goes south. Not a good strategy. Third, capacity is definitely substantially different. He was using basically a 5-shot 44 mag snub whereas the 10mm is 15+1. Without having fired either of those pistols I'd wager that one could fire all 16 rounds of 10mm in the space of time you could fire 5 rounds of 44 mag out of that snub. At least with any reasonable expectation of accuracy on the shots.



No doubt the 44 mag has it all over the 10mm in terms of bullet weight, velocity and power. Again, I'm sure Mac and the other reloaders will attest to that. And I know at least Mac has a 44 mag IIRC. So if one was traveling to Alaska or some place with larger bear, what would you feel most comfortable with overall as far as a sidearm? Interesting question.

[tom mac]

I'd opt for the extra rounds of the G20 ( in proper hardcast ) over a S&W 29.

I own both and can def shoot the G20 faster and more accurate over the Mod 29...

[ratf51]

It seems as though the 10mm is on the ascendancy as I encounter more articles or posts about it. I honestly think that its best comparison cartridge is the .41 Magnum.

[David]

Mac made the suggestion in another thread of 45 Super so I started looking into that as well. Here are some interesting videos from a couple guys in Alaska. This guy Chute appears to be a guide up there.

[Mac66]

IMO, bigger is always better in terms of caliber and weight.

I took my 44 mag Redhawk to Alaska with 305 gr bear loads. I found that they recoiled less than some 240 gr loads I made up. The bear loads got about 1100 fps out of the 5.5" bbl. Some of the 240s got 1300+ fps. There is only so much powder you can cram into a casing. The bigger/longer the bullet the less powder you can get in. Less powder, less boom.

And there is a big difference in recoil and velocity between a 2.75" snubby and a 5.5" bbl 44 mag. If I had a choice between a 2.75" bbl 44 mag and 10 mm I'd probably choose the 10 mm. Given a choice between a 10 mm and a full sized 5.5" bbl 44 mag, I'd choose the 44 mag (which I did when I went to Alaska). I think mag capacity is irrelevant in a bear attack. You are unlikely to get more than a couple rounds off.

My son when he went out west hiking at Glacier NP last summer took his 10 mm with hard cast bear loads. We took it up to my cabin before he went and ran some through it. They were stout but not unmanageable. I still think bigger is better but I wouldn't feel unarmed with a 10mm around grizzlies. It would be fine for black bear as would a properly loaded 357 mag.

[David]

I was kinda surprised about the last video on regular 45acp and how popular it is in Alaska, according to the video author. My aunt and uncle lived in Alaska for 30 years. They had a 45acp and a 44mag. They weren't gun people but they had them anyway. I suppose that is pretty common in that state. I asked them which they took when out on the trails snowmobiling and the answer was 44mag. This was during the time the 10mm was introduced but I doubt either of them had either heard of it and it probably wasn't yet in wide-spread use anywhere.

I also agree on that 44 snub, although easier to pack with you on a long jaunt in the wilds, just seems to unmanageable after the first shot. You'd really have to train with that little sucker and that doesn't sound like a very fun time at the range.

The energies between 10mm and 45 Super were fairly in the same ball park. Neither were anything to laugh off for sure. My take away thus far is that no, 10mm is not going to equal the 44mag in terms of bullet weight, velocity or energy. The 45 Super is going to somewhat match it in bullet weight to a point, but not velocity and energy. The 45 Super and 10mm are fairly comparable 'overall' on velocity and energy with either going up or down depending on various factors with the 45 Super having an edge in some of the upper weights and of course starting size. I would think that penetration would not be an issue with any of the three. And as Mac said in the other thread, 10mm has an advantage with having expensive 'bear loads' available as well as more moderately priced 'regular' ammo.