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War again with N Korea ?
#31
You're taking it to a silly extreme Bob.  NK is an unstable dictatorship that would have no compulsion with holding their neighboring countries hostage with the threat of nuclear weapons. They already have everything and the kitchen sink aimed at the ROK capitol which is an ally with American troops numbering into the tens of thousands.  Japan is also an ally with tens of thousands of American troops.  The region is a financial hub as well.  And they have a history or sabre-rattling when they want/need something.  That is unacceptable.  Whereas nuclear-capable countries use nuclear weapons as a deterrent, NK would use it as a bargaining chip.  And with their warped philosophy, use nuclear weapons if they didn't get there way.  

Although I don't particularly care for the liberal politics coming out of California, I don't particularly want to see them blown off the map either.  They're still Americans.

Same with Iran.  They don't need nukes because they would use them.  Not as a deterrent but as a tool against their perceived enemies.  Both are a viable threat.  

As for police, they've had armored vehicles and automatic weapons for a long time.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
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#32
(07-22-2017, 03:48 PM)Bob Wrote: And then they might take over South Korea.  And if South Korea falls, then they could take Japan.  And if they get enough Nuclear power they might spread throughout the world!  And then some Americans of Korean descent might support them.  And if we don't tighten up our borders - they could be slipping in through Mexico right now with nuclear backpacks!  And they might buy guns!!!  I know - let's just confiscate all the guns from everyone and destroy North Korea.

See how that goes Dave?  I guess you don't really believe in Freedom...It's a scary thing.  You have to let people who you don't trust have weapons.  Just like you have them.  And by the way....the greatest number of illegal weapon use resulting in illegal deaths? And is government backed?

Current North Korean regime or the State/Local Police?
- My threat matrix says YOU are greater threat than little fat Korean boy....

Ouch!


You know he is making weapons - so we should go make some better weapons and watch him.  Really - it is that easy.  And given that we have been doing that with people who can LEGITIMATELY harm us....let it go.  North Korea is irrelevant.  And even if they DO attack, like you would miss Kalifornistan....

Just a lot of distraction and noise.  We should all be way more worried about our own police having armored vehicles, automatic weapons ect.
Easy Bob.'08.
If you look like food,you will be eaten.


I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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#33
Bob, I think there are two different threats.

The first being foreign threat. North Korea has shown disregard for their own people and the willingness to instigate issues with their neighbors. As they continue to develop their ability to rage war, they become a larger global threat. As such, we need to pay attention and consider options to stop them.

Secondly, you mentioned a home grown threat. Our founding fathers were aware that when the government becomes to powerful they can make the people submissive. Hence, they included the 2nd Amendment to provide a balance to help reduce the threat from the government over taking the people. I'm all for law enforcement having any tool that I can legally have. If I can have a Glock 19, they can have a Glock 19. When they start getting privileged treatment, that is where there is a problem. If you restrict your average Joe to a six shooter, then law enforcement should be under the same restrictions. I personally feel that we give law enforcement all the tools they need to accomplish the job we have charged them with, but we get to the same tools if we desire. The same applies to carry restrictions. If a place is off limits for carrying to law abiding citizens, then it is also off limits to law enforcement to carry.

I don't like creating unequal classes. Everyone should have the same rights.
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#34
(07-25-2017, 01:11 PM)bmyers Wrote: I don't like creating unequal classes. Everyone should have the same rights.

Well then, Nukes and ICBM's for everyone, or we need to get rid of ours.  Our don't you believe in your own statement?  Freedom is awesome, but it isn't safe.

On an international level, we are trying to create/prevent a group of people from having a weapon.  And if you put yourself in their shoes, you can't rationally say the US doesn't look like the biggest bully and thug in the neighborhood.

Or if you want to believe that they are criminals and shouldn't have nukes - ok.  But honestly, has that ever stopped a crazy person or a criminal from getting a weapon?  

I agree - we shouldn't be making different classes of people.  Yet we do it all the time.  In fact, police vs citizens is one of those.  And again - if you believe that the police do not have rights that above and beyond yours - not looking at it rationally.

Meanwhile - back in Korea.  Korea is a kid down the street, with goofy ideas and a crappy .22 with horrible sites.  He just got a new Center Point scope from Walmart.  HAs no idea how to site it in.  Yet we are generating a thread like he got a Lapua .338 with military glass.  Yeah, I know he is there.  I know what he is doing.  I know what will happen if he does it.  He has not done anything illegal - and we have no right to take his gun because he is an idiot.  If we do - then we also have the right to take mine.  I have a thousand things to worry about.  North Korea is nowhere on the list.

He doesn't have it, he can't afford it, everyone knows he is an idiot.  Might was well worry about solar eruptions.  More likely, and more damaging.
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#35
Glad to see Bob is off his medicine.

Please read my original post and don't take it out of context. Then again, maybe you need a few more reading lessons and you would understand what was written.

The quote you referred to was dealing with United States citizens, nothing to do with any other country or their citizens.

Now, as I noted in my original post, North Korea has shown complete disregard for all International sanctions and regulations. You are incorrect that North Korea hasn't done anything illegal (see NPT 1985 and Resolution 1718).

Yes, the US is one of the superpowers, guess you missed that whole history lesson in school. With that being said, yes we have an obligation to protect ourselves and our allies. If North Korea would learn how to play nice with others, then maybe they wouldn't be getting ready to get the smack put down on them.
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#36
Quote:Meanwhile - back in Korea.  Korea is a kid down the street, with goofy ideas and a crappy .22 with horrible sites.  He just got a new Center Point scope from Walmart.  HAs no idea how to site it in.  Yet we are generating a thread like he got a Lapua .338 with military glass.  Yeah, I know he is there.  I know what he is doing.  I know what will happen if he does it.  He has not done anything illegal - and we have no right to take his gun because he is an idiot.


But as pointed out, he has violated international resolutions and the like.  And he is aggressive and has threatened to use the force once he's acquired it.  He's threatened out allies which is unacceptable.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
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#37
Well, then - let's get on with it, and invade North Korea? What are we waiting for?

And OH NO - he violated INTERNATIONAL TREATIES!!!!! we do that all the time. What is your point? You guys sound really aggressive towards North Korea, and are honestly US is way more of a threat to them than they are to us.

I'm not saying the guy isn't an idiot, and wouldn't like to be able to rain flaming doom on all of us. I'm saying he is the mouse that is roaring - and you all sound like he is a lion, with a pride backing him up surrounding us. It's the other way around.

At the end of the day, it's a horribly mismanaged communist country, on the constant brink of starvation and internal revolt. They are surrounded by people who hate them. Russia is not a fan of stupid people, nor is China. If anything, their only concern is that we might choose to deal with him, which gives us troops even closer to their borders than their already are. WE nearly started WWIII the last time someone tried to do that. I think the term is "hypocrisy" and it usually leads to no good.

Is a threat good enough to kill someone? If it isn't good enough to shoot a person, it is not good enough to destroy a country. He can declare war, or commit an act of aggression. Then it is game on. Until then - he is a lot of media hype and BS designed to get the publics panties in a wad - and for most of us, it appears to be working.

Looks like we got tired of the Iranian nuke threat (another non-issue). You either believe in the right to defend yourself or you don't. Countries have it too. I don't like it, but hey - reality isn't built to make me happy. He can have all the nukes he wants. I'll just make bigger better faster ones.

If you feel N. Korea is a treat besides posturing, please let me know how. I reserve the right to change my opinion. Until then - a lot of noise, and no signal.

*Things that do not cover legitimate evidence of NK being a threat "You just don't get it" or "He said" or "He violated an agreement he didn't agree to" and such other non-evidence based issues. If that is the case we should have a thread for Hal;f of the countries in the world.
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#38
I respect your view Bob, but I can't agree with you on this one.  

Quote:I'm saying he is the mouse that is roaring



Not really.  Although he doesn't have the logistics, on his own, for sustained warfare, he is capable of dealing quite a lot of death in an initial pre-emptive strike.  He's capable of hitting the ROK as well as Japan.  Both are allies with millions of citizens.  On top of that, between military, civilians and tourists we have tens of thousands of Americans in both spots that are potentially in harms way.  Not only is he an idiot, he thinks he's a meglomaniac that would use it on a whim if he didn't get his way or felt cornered.

Sitting in Florida, well, you and I are safe.  What if you were in the ROK or Japan.  Or not long from now Kalifornia?
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
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#39
Well, if I were sitting there, my advice still holds:

I am allowed to build as many bombs and missiles as he is. The difference is, since I also built industry, I'll have food too. He built a nation on a rock, and chose to spend all of his money on bullets and guns (hmmm....there is a lesson there).

I'd say let them build their own defenses, and as an American tourist, take some responsibility for knowing where you are traveling.

Speaking as a martial artist, and quoting the immortal Mr. Miyagii - "Karate yes, ok. Karate no, ok. Karate maybe - not ok." So - no time like like the present. Let's sign up our sons and daughters to go there and get killed so Hundai can sell more cars, and Japan more TV's - because let's face it, our kids don't need the jobs. NK only gets stronger and closer to dangerous weapons every day. So let's get it on.

But that isn't going to happen. Too much money and wheeling and dealing for politicians to leave it alone or end it.

Or - I can go on with my life, and prep. It is not my job, right, or responsibility to save Japan from Korea anymore than it is to save California from Bankruptcy. If NK want to harmJapan, they will, and the only way you can stop them is to flat out decide you know the future and be pre-emptive. I note that NK is a bit wacky, and I go on, but not on a trip to South Korea or Japan.

Both of whom, by the way, have become dependent upon us for their own protection. At great cost to the US - especially economically. And of course, as our government is so good at - it has made them dependent at the expense of their own ability to handle it themselves. Whose signature says that?

Korea does not have, will not have, nor will they ever launch a missile at the US that is not terminated mid-flight (if it gets that far) by our own military. There is a sub of NK that has more nuclear material onboard than NK will ever posses.

The invasion of South Korea by them would be a major economic boom for us, as NK would ruin a manufacturing beast. You are working on the assumption that we have to protect everyone, everywhere. You going Global Democrat on us Dave?
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#40
(07-30-2017, 11:53 PM)Bob Wrote: Well, if I were sitting there, my advice still holds:


Can't agree.  ROK, Japan are allies.  In addition to civilians we have a substantial amount of military there as well.  We can't just write them off because there there and we're here. Besides, it's now becoming a moot point.  Looks like he's able to reduced the size of his weapons payload now and is getting the range of the U.S. mainland in short order.  Oh, and he's threatened Guam which is a U.S. territory.

To make an analogy...

You have a crazy man at the end of the table.  He has a revolver in front of him and he's trying to figure out how to load it.  He says as soon as he figures it out, he's going to shoot you. He also has a hostage tied up in the chair next to him and a knife.  He's says if you get up to stop him from loading the revolver he'll stab the hostage to death.  As you sit there trying to figure out what to do...he continues to try to load the revolver.  Eventually he's going to figure it all out and then shoot you.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
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