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Magazine capacity
#1
Video 




Hard to get an exact round count, but I counted at least 10 rounds fired between the two times the primary engaged the target. That isn't counting other rounds by any of the other officers on scene. One reason why pistol capacity can be a very important consideration.  Although not every incident will require that many rounds, what if it does?  What if that knife-welding individual is on meth, benzos, spice, crack or cocaine? 

Tossing this out for consideration, debate, discussion.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
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#2
I'd like to know how many of those rounds hit him and where.
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#3
Nevermind, it appears the first cop missed him entirely with all but 1 round and that was a poor hit. Then he lets the guy get up and take his back. Thankfully the second cop was a better shot.
This is a video about poor training instead of high capacity. How could anyone miss that many shots at a target coming straight at them at super close range.
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#4
key to all as we know is shot placement & training .

In the past, I remember the pencil holes in some targets so the shooter would pass ... not good but back then in 80s, you didn't say much

Made me train more till I was shooting a 95+ all the time... but still I know many today only go once a yr to qualify.
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#5
(07-12-2019, 05:28 AM)Ronin.45 Wrote: This is a video about poor training instead of high capacity. How could anyone miss that many shots at a target coming straight at them at super close range.

I'd suggest it is about the need for high capacity in some situations.  Here we have a (hopefully) well trained individual, yet he did miss multiple times at close range.  Although it's easy to Monday morning quarterback any situation we have to remember that these things are ugly, messy, chaotic, fluid situations where the adrenaline is pumping and each second brings 100 variables.  Could things have been done differently?  I sure we can always find areas of improvement with the benefit of hindsight.  But it does demonstrate that misses are a very real possibility.  It also demonstrates that a quick reload is a possibility depending on the capacity of your firearm. 

Video starts out in a parking lot with the primary waving his left hand.  Possibly waving bystanders away from the area?  Back peddling was possibly leading the perp out of the area of bystanders, or towards responding officers.  Can't know for sure based on the information presented in this brief video. 

I don't think transitioning to the taser was the best option at that point in the video, even if the perp had dropped the knife (assuming he had dropped it?).  He's still charging officers and the knife is still present somewhere in the vicinity.  But again, it does demonstrate that misses are a real possibility.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
Reply
#6
I gave a response on a different forum and I will condense it, without criticism.
1. situational awareness is key to winning. You can train yourself to be aware of what is going on, avenues of escape, and options.
2. you need to understand human ergonomics in your priorities above magazine capacity.
if your training has been limited to qualifying on the police range once a year, shooting static, at known ranges, you need to find someone who will teach you how to shoot, empty, reload your Glock while walking/running/in low light. AND, I don't mean running on a set competition course, stopping and then shooting.
3. you need to go through real life scenarios. I will give you one
It was before a class formally started with instruction. We were at the range. There was a set of targets at 20 feet. We were walked out to the targets and told to take an arm's length distance from the targets. Then, we were told the drill. YOU will not be told the drill in a real life encounter. This was done to make sure everyone was on the same page and safe as the drill unfolded.
1. you would draw and fire starting with a holstered position;
2. you would not fire unless you were in motion going backwards;
3. you would not stop and would be in continuous backup motion the 20 feet to the concrete range pad.
4. the target would be only the base of the throat on the target.
5. you would shoot and reload, emptying three magazines within the 20 feet.

The retired LAPD swat instructor choked and failed. The Lt. Col. from a Cambodian Swat unit claims his borrowed .45 government model was defective - it was demonstrated to fine operationally. Yes, I did it without taking my eyes from the target.

When I saw the guy charging with the knife, I thought of the time that I raised the issue of a bad guy having the draw on me and I asked a qualified person what could be done other than the old rock and shoot routine which was guaranteed to have me off balance and injured. He demonstrated a movement which defeated the goal of having me as a static target while I would be drawing in shooting in movement with definite hits on the bad guy. And this was at nearly arm's distance. You need to be trained to anticipate that the bad guy is in control of starting the confrontation, escalating the same, and will attack from ambush. I had a classmate, a civilian, who encountered a stick up guy at a gas station. He knew precisely what to do. He drew and killed his assailant on the spot. He had OODOLOOP training with me.

All the jazz about controlled pairs, speed reloads came when there were revolvers. When people were taught two to the chest and one to the head, their instructors never considered that a shot person would be falling and you would never get the head shot. When, you were taught one armed bullseye shooting and putting the spent revolver cartridge in the pocket, you ended up like the CHP officer with his spent rounds in his uniform pocket. When you do the FBI squat, you make an excellent static target, you cannot move, you cannot deal with two people without wildly swinging your arms, and if there is a bad guy behind you (I know of an officer shot in the back of the head in SA), you will never be able to move and survey the scene.

1. think
2. keep learning
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#7
When the first 3-4 shots at range did NOT do the job COM, the next three (much closer) are going into the face. I count about 7 rounds there. Anyone with a semi and less than that? Din't think so.

- I don't see the problem, other than poor training

Also - I can disarm than knife without a gun. I wouldn't want to, but wouldn't lose my mind. He would however, lose the use of that arm.
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#8
Bob: Yes, poor training.

Options on target areas discussion. Most people will not train to shoot accurately when moving. Moreover, a head is a small target and most people do not train to shoot a moving target unless they shoot trap/skeet/ducks.

So, I give an option. Bladder shot. Bigger area. Instantly nearly stopping the fight through hydrostatic shock.

In the US Army, people were taught quickly to shoot center mass. It didn't mean that there would be a hit center mass. Why it was taught had nothing to do with vulnerable parts of the human body. It had to do with ballistics. If a soldier shot at center mass on a standing target, the hit would register on a opponent starting with the head and hitting the feet at 600 yards or so. Shooting with a Garand or m14. No sight adjustment needed.

It would have taken more time, assuming instructor competence, to teach how to shoot at just an exposed head/arm/or leg and how to estimate range, given the ballistics of the round fired.
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#9
Well, in that scenario I don't need to move. Target had a knife, not a spear or a bow!

And seriously? Double taps at COM and head range is a regular thing: TAP TAP Pause TAP TAP.

It's not some Navy SEAL tactical complicated thing....

So I watched this again a couple of times.

At one point the guy was AT ARMS LENGTH. I'm sorry - I could chose to put the round in either eye, or up a particular side of his nose with my left hand...
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#10
On an amusing note, I got a 75rd drum for my AK....
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