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Israeli Carry
#1
I've been in many discussions over the years in regards to Israeli carry.  If you are unfamiliar with Israeli carry, that means the firearm is carried with a full magazine and empty chamber.  It is a carry methodology that is effective in the real world.  Found a good video that goes into some explanation and demonstration of the methodology.





I became an Israeli Instinctive Shooting Instructor back around the turn of the century.  Although I carry with one in the chamber per policy, I would have absolutely no issue carrying chamber empty.  If anyone has any questions please toss them out.  The usual arguments against are:
  • It's slow.  If properly trained it 'may' be about 2/10ths of a second slower against someone equally trained in another method.  In general, those trained in Israeli carry are faster than the average shooter because of the level of training.
  • It adds a step.  It does, but again has been tested under duress in real world combat conditions and has not proven to be a detrimental factor.
  • You need both hands.  This is false.  You only need one hand, two is a luxury.  The methodology of training dictates proficiency with either hand or one-hand.  Particularly with reloads, chambering and malfunction clearing.  Which should be known regardless of how the firearm is carried.
Tossing this out for discussion and to familiarize with the methodology.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
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#2
I've been in many discussions about this over the years as well. Most arguments for it continually go back to how it's "not much slower".
As you mentioned, two shooters trained to the same standard will show a distinct speed advantage for chambered carry. You can't compare a well trained IC shooter to an untrained "average shooter". The "average shooter" doesn't train from a holster at all.
The idea that you don't need two hands is kind of a misleading idea when combined with the speed difference you already mentioned. Of course you can rack the slide off your belt/shoe/nearby object, but you'll add considerable time to your presentation. Probably from your claimed 0.2sec to around 2.0sec. That extra time could be well beyond what you have in a confrontation.
I find it odd that folks who espouse carrying extra mags could also suggest Israeli Carry. Statistically you're much more likely to be in a hand to hand situation when you need to draw than you ever are to need a reload.
In the end, while people can argue how IC is not much worse, they can never explain why it's better in any way.
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#3
Most people will not train enough to be proficient at it. You can't get the majority of the people to go to the range on a regular bases and practice basic shooting skills. So, I'm in the camp against it because it adds a step that most will never take the time to prefect.
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#4
That is the way I carry; full magazine, empty chamber, and trigger pulled. I was trained that method in the military with a shoulder rig. I do not get to practice the draw and rack unless I am the only one at the range. That is the big factor on my weekday trips to the range. Tuesday mornings is a dead time for the range l go to. I get to practice one or two times a month.

I carry using a OWB in the 4 o'clock position or in a shoulder rig. I prefer the cross draw of the shoulder rig. I also practice the draw, one hand rack and shoot drill in addition to the standard draw, two hand rack and shoot. My standard practice load is 3 rounds in a mag with a silhouette and practice a "hearts and mind" shot grouping.
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#5
If you were trained in no chamber carry to begin with I don't see a problem with it. If you were trained in carrying a "loaded" gun Wink to begin with then converting to a empty chamber carry might be an issue.

Some of those Israeli guys came around and offered a free class to guys on my department back in the day. I thought it was interesting and tried to carry empty chamber for a couple weeks. I never got used to it. Loaded chamber carry was so ingrained in me that I was constantly checking to see if my gun was loaded or not. I remember getting up one foggy brained morning and I couldn't remember if my pistol was loaded. I finally said "screw this" and kept my pistols loaded from them on.

Bottom line (IMO) is stick to the way you were trained. If you try to switch you may get an "oh sh*t" moment when you revert back to your initial training during stress".
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#6
Yes, people revert to their training.  Incident many years ago, 4 CHP officers killed.  On guy was a bullseye shooter.  He had the empties in his pocket.  Do not train with Weaver stance, FBI squat, bullseye, one handed stance for that reason.  The guys are now retired, but if you obtain Alan Egusa's book on shooting or watch some videos quickshoot.com and turnipseed.com, and communicate with them, you might end up shooting ergonomically so that you can walk/run/load/unload while in movement.
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#7
(05-03-2018, 02:50 PM)Ronin.45 Wrote: I've been in many discussions about this over the years as well. Most arguments for it continually go back to how it's "not much slower".
As you mentioned, two shooters trained to the same standard will show a distinct speed advantage for chambered carry. 

But I didn't state that.  What I stated was, if two individuals are equally trained the one with chambered carry 'may' be a couple/few tenths of a second faster.  That time frame, in the real world is inconsequential.  The point being, if one is properly trained in IC the issue of 'slower' is not an issue.  It simply isn't slower by any meaningful measure and also, most shooters (particularly bad guys) aren't trained to any high standard so someone proficient in IC will normally be faster on the draw.  

Another issue that is often raised is that it 'adds a step'.  Yes, it does.  And normally I'm all for keeping things as stupid simple as possible.  This would be the exception to my rule, imo.  It adds less complexity to the equation than say using your thumb to dump a mag while using your other hand to draw a fresh mag and then inserting it into the mag well.  With practice we all know that that process can be done fast and seamless.  Same with chambering a round.  Just part of the draw.

And regardless of how one carries, and it's not my mission to change how people carry, my overwhelming main point is that folks should know how to reload, chamber and clear malfunctions one-handed with either hand.  This is part of the totality of the IC methodology but is not exclusive or tied to chamber full/empty.  

Good discussion  Smile
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
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