Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
How sad, help was there but hid instead
#11
(02-26-2018, 12:19 AM)mac66 Wrote: Personally I think protection should be left to those who are specifically trained in it. Of course that surmises that the people trained will actually act unlike the coward from Broward.  Teachers have enough to do.

A lot of urban school systems have  their own police and have metal detectors at the doors manned by armed security or proprietary police. Every student has photo ID  and everyone has to go through a metal detector. Don't hear of very many shootings inside of urban schools. Only seems to be a problem in suburban schools.


Yes, the best is having a fully trained and prepared response team, building design to stop an attack, but most school districts don't have the funds. As this incident proved, if you don't have a vested interest in the kids, you may not respond. The coaches and teachers that knew the kids, died trying to save the kids. If they had been given the tools, they would of stood a much better chance of bringing this massacre to an end. Yet, since they were denied the tools, all they could do was lay down their lives while those with the tools stood outside and did nothing. Sadly as SCOTUS has ruled in 2005, law enforcement has no duty to protect you, they are only required to investigate crimes and make arrest. Everyone wants the officers charged with dereliction of duty, but they actually have the law on there side. If the State of Florida tries to pursue it, they could be opening up all government agencies to lawsuits because you start forcing the different entities to take responsibility for the hazards they create (i.e. gun free zones). 

I attached a paper on the topic.


Attached Files
.pdf   Rizzi-note-final.pdf (Size: 107.9 KB / Downloads: 0)
Reply
#12
The problem with arming teachers is that a large percentage of teachers are liberal left wingers and anti 2nd amendment. They have been indoctrinating our youth, making them question their sex and heritage along with pushing their version of history and ethics. There needs to be a change.

America needs to learn from Israel. There is not any school shootings as most of the teachers are armed. They have a different mentality towards their youth.

It is also interesting that American schools may have a resource officer. One officer. And his primary duty is to direct traffic in the morning and afternoon. If you go to City Hall or state capital building there are cops at each door and at different points throughout the building. The way we do things needs to change.


"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night, only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." GEORGE ORWELL
Reply
#13
Retired LEO/MIL would be perfect.'08.
If you look like food,you will be eaten.


I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Reply
#14
Sheriff Israel now has 2 mass murders on his watch.
2017 shooting at the Fort Lauderdale Airport

He has a lot of balls to be so inept.
Reply
#15
I have no issue with teachers being armed.  It works in Israel, it can work here.  I have no issue with armed security at schools either.  I would like to see them have some specific training for the environment.  Mostly security guards have extremely limited training, if any at all.  That would need to be changed for this type of environment.  Standing post in a bank or armored care is quite different than a soft target school which may have a wide open design.  

Armed security/LEO on-site is the front line while the teachers are a secondary line (but likely to be right there if an incident breaks out).  At the very least a teacher could pin down an attacker to a specific location and/or change/limit his plan of attack.  

A more pressing issue is a coordinated attack on a school be a trained group.  This has happened in other countries.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
Reply
#16
Well, if you cannot see but now what is up I am not sure what will. All of these kids are Soros paid off actors to persuade people to get on the gun control wagon. These deputies we're not adding cowardly, they were merely doing as they were paid and told to be there and do nothing so it could be said that police and arm guards were there and still they could not take out the shooter. 18 billion dollars at work here. And now the president, the master negotiator, is colluding with democrats and negotiating our rights to self defense. Coincidence? I think not.
Reply
#17
Yer wrong.'08.
If you look like food,you will be eaten.


I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Reply
#18
The Deputies that were there had an opportunity to engage and stop the thread.  They chose not to do so.  Responding Officers from other agencies didn't hesitate to enter and seek the threat and are the ones responsible for getting the shooter.  

If you're trained, armed and able-bodied yet choose not to protect the defenseless you're a coward.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
Reply
#19
(03-04-2018, 06:30 PM)David Wrote: The Deputies that were there had an opportunity to engage and stop the thread.  They chose not to do so.  Responding Officers from other agencies didn't hesitate to enter and seek the threat and are the ones responsible for getting the shooter.  

If you're trained, armed and able-bodied yet choose not to protect the defenseless you're a coward.

Yes.  The problem is training.  Hollywood shoot out.  Real time.  I was a few miles away watching on television.  Insofar as I am informed, the bad guys did not shoot one of the police; it was police shooting police.  When I saw the SWAT officers driving up on the last car, I was screaming "noooooooooooooo".  All that was running through my mind was: 1.  giving up distance; 2. not knowing how to range shots.

A couple of weeks later, a non police instructor demonstrated how it could have been terminated at the beginning.  You didn't need accuracy either.  He said "you are on the west side of the street.  everyone on the east side take cover. on the count of three, everyone on the west side shoot at the gun. one, two, three."  We fired and the right side of one target was riddled (incapacitated). 

Training:
1.  no one taking command on scene;
2.  no realistic training.  Probably shooting qualifying from a known distance under ideal conditions.

I relate the following, not from ego, but to demonstrate a point.  At the Bejing Airport with a group of people.  I already had ferreted out information on the people in case something went wrong.  No ambulances,EMTs on the street in any Chinese city.  Two guys come running in and grab me because one of the men had collapsed outside and was not breathing.  This meant that they didn't have skills.  I go outside.  I work on the guy with a fireman from LA County and his girlfriend.  7 minutes not breathing.  We revive him.  As this is going on, I am directing people to get two taxis, call the embassy, go in the airport and get medical personnel (which consisted of two scared women in uniform with a rusty tank of oxygen).  I am also having the luggage protected.

Realistic training (which will never happen):
1.  do a simple drill.  Have a bunch of recruits and officers in a group.  Create a scenario (no shooting/no guns).  Point at one of the people and tell him to order other people what to do.  Then, after the first guy goes, have the second guy deal with the same scenario.  This is the way you get people to think about how to handle a situation.  I've seen too many videos of shootouts where the officer doesn't consider backstops, sweeps people and don't coordinate.  There is even a free civilian website which shows videos of crimes and responses from all over the world with criticism.  If you don't have the budget for everyone to work in a group, put a t.v. in the rec room and have people sign in and watch the videos;
2.  have your people trained to fire in low light while standing on one foot (duplicates running/walking and engaging).  Out goes dumb concepts like bullseye shooting, Weaver stance, FBI squat, two to the chest and one to the head, double taps, controlled pairs.

I fully understand that a department will never have a budget that teaches people to load, clear, shoot accurately while walking or running.  The budget will not be spent on constructing wood frame courses with room clearing, select slug drills.  I gave you two simple things.

Let me explain what the German Army learned in WW1 when the first stormtroopers were fielded (no it was not Adolph Hitler who came up with the concept).  It was found that if you made the troops make the decisions of how to approach a problem, they did better than being told what to do.  That Police Chief was -hit.  He never pushed responsibility to figure police approaches to problems down to the foot patrolman level.  Make them think in training and they will perform when faced with a bad situation.

In the real world and not annual qualification, a policeman engages in a fluid and uncertain situation.  Ok, so your budget only allows 50 rounds for qualification on a well lit range at measured distances.  Make the same facility available in low light (you can use welder's googles) and the beat cop will probably spend a few bucks out of his own pocket once he is shown and understands how to shoot accurately when ambushed at night.
Reply
#20
Looks to be a very busy summer for me.  The intent is to train and have in place armed security or Officers/Deputies at every school in the county by the start of school.  I will be a part of that as far as the initial training aspect (I'm a firearm and D.T. instructor).  As far as I understand, every county in the State is doing the same thing with the same time line goal of start of class in the Fall.

Hopefully by hardening the target it will indeed prevent/mitigate further tragedies.  

I am also a believer in teachers being armed if they choose to do so.  They do it in Israel and to my knowledge there have been zero school shootings.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)