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Vehicle defense
Based on the recent event and question asked on what firearm to use, I thought I would start this thread so thoughts could be shared and if anyone knows of articles/videos about firearms and vehicles.

Video of shooting windshield
Behind front tire and engine location for me every time !
The box o truth mentions a 60gr 22LR will not penetrate the windshield. A 40gr LR will punch right through a windshield - much higher velocity and a lot more common.
No articles or videos to which I can point. Comments follow based upon personal training in shooting from moving vehicles, defensive action from motor vehicle, testing glass - all with live fire.

1. shooting from the back of a moving truck at even a stationary target and achieving hits is nearly impossible despite what is depicted in the movies.
2. it is very noisy and expensive to practice by shooting out through the windshield and not like in the movies.
3. if you are deciding to engage from a stopped vehicle, make sure than your front seat companion has released himself from his seatbelt as it is very hard to exit a vehicle with his seatbelt still locked up.
4. somewhere on the road in CA is a car with a bullet crease in the trunk from a .45acp round. Thank goodness he shot his own car and not a rental in the class.
5. If you insist, ok, then jam your handgun between the seat and backstop of the seat. You are more apt to find it when you have come to a stop and want to find it.
6. It is not JUST the power or caliber of a round on glass. You also need to consider the distance away, the angle of impact with the glass. Please remember that a car has safety glass windows and not sugar glass windows like some cars in the movies. Did you really think that people are hit over the heat in movies with real beer bottles or real wine bottles. Wrong. They are made of sugar. Do you think that the old Molotov cocktails were made with real wine bottles? Nope, thinner glass. People in NY use the thinner glass bottles from Starbucks.
7. You are much better off practicing situational awareness. 55 years ago I was a driver for a manufacturer's representative whose territory was some of the worst areas in the world. His instructions - if you have problem, don't stop the car, just drive to the nearest police station. That advice is still good today. Forget glass penetration and paying for dynamic stop training. Roll up the windows, stay out of bad areas and use the accelerator.
I should of been more specific, with the recent events in NYC, the question was raised what caliber handgun to use to stop a vehicle that was a potential threat to you/your family?

You are outside, walking, riding a bike, etc. and the vehicle is now coming at you and you are in danger from the vehicle (i.e. the recent NYC attack).

What is the best choice(s) in that event?
Nothing is going to stop a moving vehicle coming at you ... to much motion in the mass
Unless your a very lucky shot and the driver jerks the wheel after being stuck. But in this case, any thing with enough power to go thru the windshield and take out the driver...
44 mag comes to mind first Smile but it's hard to hide the model 29 in my pants.... I usu carry a G20.
Any normal defensive round(9, 40, 45, 357) will penetrate the glass. Taking the driver out is the only chance and it's a slim one that he will veer off course. Your best bet is getting out of the way if possible.
(11-05-2017, 03:51 AM)Ronin.45 Wrote: Any normal defensive round(9, 40, 45, 357) will penetrate the glass. Taking the driver out is the only chance and it's a slim one that he will veer off course. Your best bet is getting out of the way if possible.

Agreed.  This is where situational awareness trumps weapon platform.  Shooting out the tires will not necessarily stop a speeding vehicle.  It may slow it and/or make it harder to control but it's still going to be moving.  Shooting the driver through the windshield or other window could work, but we're talking about shooting a fast moving target, through an intermediate barrier that is hard on bullets while under stress.  Easy in the movies, not so easy in real life.  


Even with those factors against you, if you are in a safe location i.e. not in the path of the speeding vehicle, if may serve to stop or restrict the attack.  I'd be more inclined to try to put rounds into the driver over shooting tires in that even if the blown tire causes the vehicle to stop (unlikely) you still have to deal with the attacker who very well may be armed once he leaves the vehicle.  At least putting rounds into the interior of the vehicle may stop the attacker first and eventually the vehicle second.  

Difficult situation at best, but then at least it's proactive in that you're not simply being/staying a victim.
Governmental dependance makes for poor self reliance.

"What could possibly go wrong with a duct tape boat?"  Cody Lundin

The best defense against evil men are good men with violent skill sets.
I think this is a situation that simply won't be solved with a concealed carry gun. The likelihood of realizing it's happening before it starts is virtually zero. If a crowd is gathered near a road or parking lot where vehicles are moving, it will only be a few seconds from normal to impact. Even if you witness it happening and can get your gun into action, you have no way of knowing if it's an attack or some old lady missing the brake. Until the guy jumps out yelling about Allah or keeps gunning it to hit more people, it's more likely an accident than an attack.

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