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Home Defense Thread - David - 07-08-2018

For commentary and discussion on home defense firearms, gear, principles and training.  

To start the thread off...






RE: Home Defense Thread - David - 07-08-2018

Touching on one of the areas Paul discusses in his video, I keep my shotguns in 'cruiser safe' mode i.e. full magazine tube but the chamber is empty.  This is the way we store our shotguns at work and a habit I've always kept.  My particular concern is the drop safe concern he addressed.  From what I understand, the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500 are not specifically drop safe.  This is enough of a concern to me to store them cruiser safe.  My thought process is that accessing them may very well be at night from a dead sleep.  Is there a chance I'd fumble and/or drop my HD shotgun?  Maybe not likely but it is a possibility.  Secondly, and this is just my circumstance, I keep the 870 under the bed on my side as it is the only reasonable place in my bedroom that is close and accessible in a hurry.  Taking it out from under the bed may cause the muzzle to sweep over the position/area of the room that my wife may be in or near.  I'd rather the chamber be empty until I firmly have the SG in hand and pointing in the area of a potential threat before charging the weapon.


RE: Home Defense Thread - ric0123 - 07-08-2018

I got into a flame war in the gun forum on Reddit a few days ago. An 18 year old girl with a 21 year old boyfriend with ZERO gun experience asked what was the best gun for HD. Everyone on the forum said AR15, which I think is pretty much the dumbest thing ever. People were talking about cost and everyone kept saying 'you can buy a kit for $400!' For someone with no gun experience? To build an AR? Yeah. ok.

I said Shotgun, since she's 18 and can't buy a handgun. Also you can buy an NEF Remington clone for about $150 at Academy. I got downvoted so hard and smashed all over the forum (not that I care) but she actually emailed me privately to ask for more information.

The only time I'd say AR15 for HD would be if I lived in the country, near the border, and I was expecting mobs of drug dealers or violent wanderers (or zombies)

The other thing that made me so mad about this thread was people talking about over penetration of rounds and how 223 didn't penetrate walls. I tried to point out the website 'box o truth.com' where the guy tests these ideas and finds them to be false.


RE: Home Defense Thread - Tsquare - 07-08-2018

The "Cruiser Safe Mode" is like my Israeli Carry with my EDC. With my Glocks I have a full magazine and trigger pulled. The shotgun in my bedroom has the chamber empty and the trigger pulled - this is also so I can rack the slide without fiddling around for the release button. The 870 as an extended tube and I run the S&B low recoil 2.5" 00 shells. I am able to get 8 shots in the tube. I was taught back in the 80's that was the way to keep your guns ready mainly to save the springs from being compressed all of the time.

I store my EDC on the main floor. My gun safe is in the basement, locked. I do have my AR-9 pistol stored in a hidden easy access point. I have a nightstand pistol and my 870 on the top floor. The main purpose of my pistols is to get to my shotgun or AR-9. I would rater have either the shotgun or the AR-9 over any of my pistols.

The last thing would like to mention is lights are nice but a laser should not be on a home defense weapon. It is like a tracer - it works in both directions, pointing to where a bullet will strike and back to the gun.


RE: Home Defense Thread - bmyers - 07-09-2018

Good video. I use to have our shotgun (Moss 500) as the to go weapon, but has since dropped it to backup position. The reason, neither of the girls are comfortable shooting it.

Instead, we all have pistols by our beds (Each one of us have a quick access bedside safe) and we each have a PCC.

Passed on past experience when something has went bump in the night, it has been the G19 with the light on it that gets grabbed and the issue checked on. It is quick, easy, and Rhonda and I are very comfortable with that platform because we shot it several times a month.

I think the key thing I appreciated about his video was his statement about finding what works for you and your situation. There are so many good options out there, you aren't forced into a one solution for every situation.


RE: Home Defense Thread - mac66 - 07-09-2018

(07-08-2018, 08:37 PM)ric0123 Wrote: I got into a flame war in the gun forum on Reddit a few days ago. An 18 year old girl with a 21 year old boyfriend with ZERO gun experience asked what was the best gun for HD.  Everyone on the forum said AR15, which I think is pretty much the dumbest thing ever. People were talking about cost and everyone kept saying 'you can buy a kit for $400!'   For someone with no gun experience? To build an AR?  Yeah. ok.

I said Shotgun, since she's 18 and can't buy a handgun. Also you can buy an NEF Remington clone for about $150 at Academy. I got downvoted so hard and smashed all over the forum (not that I care) but she actually emailed me privately to ask for more information.

The only time I'd say AR15 for HD would be if I lived in the country, near the border, and I was expecting mobs of drug dealers or violent wanderers (or zombies)

The other thing that made me so mad about this thread was people talking about over penetration of rounds and how 223 didn't penetrate walls.  I tried to point out the website 'box o truth.com' where the guy tests these ideas and finds them to be false.

There is a lot to be said for a shotgun, particularly an inexpensive pump gun and particularly in 20 ga.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/weatherby-pa08-tr-20-gauge-18-5-inch.html?___SID=U#.W0Ps-dJKhzo

I've seen these as cheap as $160.


RE: Home Defense Thread - Bob - 07-10-2018

My opinions on this should be widely known by all here -

My key points / only discrepancies;

1. I believe everyone in the entire US should have a 4" .357 Magnum and a 12g Pump shotgun. That will get you through nearly anything that has ever happened.

2. The rack factor
- If doped up twisted pervert sociopath sicko violent person is coming to hurt you....Or the house invasion w/ 4-5 people. a rack does nothing. But the majority of people in the home are NOT that. This is a fact backed up by a crap-ton of data
- To the majority of criminals, the possibility of being killed is more than enough to cause them to leave. Heck, so is a good double lock deadbolt. But even the desperate tend to choose self-preservation above all.
* I prefer to at the least give them the option to leave before I have too shoot someone. It's short deal with extremely low decision time on their part, and I don't rack and wait for the door to slam. I rack, announce, and go into target search. So if I do happen to see the front of you it had better be turning for the door. It isn't just rack and wait, or shoot first.

3. I don't like his choice of shot shells. He is basically advocating 4 other weapons that will all over-penetrate. If it will stop a bad guy, it will go right through the drywall. Buck or slug, #4 at the lightest

4. Pistol cal carbine! Who doesn't love one?

I'd prefer full size guns for HD. I'd prefer higher end guns than Kahr. But overall, I like most of what he has say. I wouldn't want to be caught in his house. And AR/AK....again - suggestions from guys who were in the military clearing houses with a squad and didn't care where the rounds went, or have never shot one without ear gear indoors.


RE: Home Defense Thread - David - 07-10-2018

(07-10-2018, 03:24 AM)Bob Wrote: 1. I believe everyone in the entire US should have a 4" .357 Magnum and a 12g Pump shotgun.  That will get you through nearly anything that has ever happened.

While both can be fine choices, I would add a caveat that not everyone can handle either of those platforms/calibers.  Elderly, injured, disability or small statured could make either a suboptimal choice.  In some ways this could be a segway into .22lr as a viable choice.  Paul hasn’t that video as well so I’ll fondness and post it.


As a side note, I found out that Paul has been in two citizen involved shootings.


RE: Home Defense Thread - David - 07-10-2018






RE: Home Defense Thread - David - 07-11-2018

To expand further on my previous two posts I'll use my wife as an example.  Her Ruger LC9s with standard pressure 9mm is about at the upper limit of her shooting tolerance.  Even with that she won't shoot very much.  I haven't tried her with my G22's yet though it may be worth a try since it's a larger/heavier gun compared to the Ruger.  

I would like to pick up a reliable .22 pistol for her.  At least for training purposes.  That way she could hopefully get in enough shoots to make a range trip worthwhile.  And to be honest, while none of us here would likely choose a .22 pistol as our primary HD and/or SD pistol, none of us would want to be on the receiving end of it either.  For someone that just can't handle a lot of recoil it makes sense to have something they can handle and can develop proficiency in.